Happy Monday Sanderfans, and welcome back to another Wind and Truth reread discussion! This week we’re diving into chapters 40 and 41, jumping back and forth between Szeth POVs as he embarks upon a new pilgrimage, and Adolin’s storyline as he begins the defense of Azimir in earnest.
The book has been out long enough that most of you will hopefully have finished, and as such, this series shall now function as a re-read rather than a read-along. That means there will be spoilers for the end of the book (as well as full Cosmere spoilers, so beware if you aren’t caught up on all Cosmere content). Be sure to check out the social media section at the end of the article to as we highlight talking points and interesting tidbits we’ve noticed in the comments and elsewhere!
Paige’s Commentary: Plot Arcs
Chapter 40 is titled “Stuko Stem” and begins with Szeth, Kaladin, and Syl arriving at the Monastery of Talmut, or Taln as he’s commonly referred to outside of Shinovar. This is where Szeth’s quest really takes shape and comes into focus.
Kaladin and Syl fear that an Unmade has influence over the land after finding farmers hiding in the barracks where soldiers would normally be. The troops have gone north and the farmers insist they must tend the land at night or else it will swallow them up. Kaladin mentions how the Midnight Mother was found in Urithiru and had to be driven out and suggests the same thing may be happening in Shinovar.
Szeth still doesn’t really know exactly what his quest to cleanse his homeland entails and says that perhaps his people themselves must be destroyed, or that they deserve the punishment. When he states that his quest is about this decision, his spren responds positively, saying that Szeth sees and grows.
Szeth also relays to Kaladin and Syl that the Shin always knew that the enemy hadn’t been defeated and that the Heralds were living among them. We learn of the Sacred Truth of the Heralds, which is the knowledge that the enemy would someday return if Talmut broke. Then the Shin would be needed to fight, and they were ready—but when the enemy finally returned, they did not believe it.
As Szeth finds a shaman inside the monastery, one bearing Talmut’s Honorblade, he tells her that Talmut should have his weapon and prepares to fight her. So this is to be Szeth’s pilgrimage, going from monastery to monastery, fighting the shaman and reclaiming Honorblades. So much for being done killing.
We then check in on Adolin as the assault in Azimir begins. The transfers of stormform, direform, and warform Regals happens more quickly than Adolin had anticipated, so he joins the fray and heads to where the singers are trying to punch through the Azish lines, which are holding for the moment. But the soldiers make way for him and he summons Maya immediately, laying into the singers.
Summons Maya immediately. Oh, yeah… I mean, we all know he can at this point, but it’s still super exciting, don’t you think? He won’t be a Radiant, but the bond he’s somehow created with Maya is still amazing in itself and a wholly new development for deadeye spren. We’ll see how that plays out but for now… battle!
There are only two sets of Shardplate in this battle: Adolin’s, and one owned by Yanagawn which will be utilized by Azish soldiers. Adolin will also have a second, of course, so that the Plate doesn’t sit idle while Adolin is resting. With so little Plate available, it’s imperative that it’s in use constantly to shore up the Azish and Alethi defense.
When Heavenly Ones join the battle, Adolin retreats. We learn that Maya can only see in the direction he’s facing, so that’s an interesting tidbit—she can’t see behind him to locate his support squad. As the Heavenly Ones disengage to go after the archers who’ve started harrying them, Adolin’s support squad shows up and he dives back into the fighting.
Even Fused would have a hard time bringing down a Shardbearer with trained support troops to bolster their defense and watch their back. We saw lots of fighting with Shardbearers on the Shattered Plains, but I don’t think we were ever in Adolin’s head while he fought with Plate and Blade. This time around, it’s super interesting to see his thoughts and his reasoning for what he does. This line hit me in the feels:
Each strike felt like a blow in the name of Kholinar, the city he’d lost, the soldiers he’d abandoned.
Fight for something, his mother had taught him. And so Adolin does, and I’ll be damned if it doesn’t move me to tears.
We get to learn about a fun (har-har) maneuver the Alethi troops call “the Heavenly One protocols” wherein they douse the Fused with oil and then shoot them with flaming arrows. It’s quite a stunning visual if you take a moment to imagine it, especially with those long garments they like to wear.
Okay, here’s another super cool thing insight into Maya and Adolin’s bond:
Adolin spun toward something he’d barely seen at the corner of his vision. He struck by instinct, and his Blade became longer by a few inches and speared straight through another flying Heavenly One—this one not on fire—her lance scraping across his armor and deflecting off.
MAYA GREW LONGER! It excites me very much that she’s behaving as Syl would do and changing mid-fight in response to what Adolin needs. Super cool, right? I mean, Adolin won’t be a Radiant, but as Unoathed, he and Maya are pretty badass, I think.
Before the end of the chapter, Adolin is set upon by another Fused—it’s none other than Abidi the Monarch, come for revenge.
Chapter 41 is “Skybreaker,” and we see Szeth battle the shaman Rit-daughter-Clutio. His spren confirms that this is his path and when Szeth hints at using both of his surges, he is still not granted use of Division. It irks me that his spren won’t allow him to use a surge which would assist him in his quest, in his fight. It’s like the spren is tying one of Szeth’s hands behind his back. Especially when Rit has use of both Stoneward surges, Cohesion and Tension, which Szeth has never faced (since they didn’t have possession of Talmut’s Blade when Szeth was training in his youth).
Rit is quite skilled; when Szeth whispers that she’s amazing, his spren tells him to destroy her, and so he does, but not easily. He manages to avoid the stone that she manipulates masterfully and is amazed that she hasn’t run out of Stormlight. He thinks of how he could only affect an area a few feet wide when training with the Willshaper Blade. So how is Rit so powerful? Is Ishar somehow affecting this fight? If so, will he be able to offer an advantage to the other shaman that Szeth must face?
At his spren’s instruction, Szeth allows himself to be captured by the stone. He is suffocating before the spren allows him to use Division. Ripping himself from the stone, he skewers Rit with his Blade.
And so he is victorious and acquires Talmut’s Honorblade. He hears what seems to be a whisper from her after she is already dead:
“Your family awaits you, pilgrim.”
That’s interesting. His parents? His sister? Is that who awaits him? Will he have to battle his father, as well, if he even lives? Ishar said Neturo was dead. I know we’ll see him again, but I don’t remember many details… What do you think about this proclamation that his family awaits him, Sanderfans?
Back to Adolin, as Abidi, the Fused, and singers attempt to bring him down. They succeed, but Adolin is able to get back up with the protection of his support squad. Our attention is drawn to a Thaylen in his squad that Adolin doesn’t recognize; we’ll learn later that Adolin had saved his son in Oathbringer, at the battle in Thaylen City. It’s moving that the man is here now to see to Adolin’s support and protection himself.
Then Abidi recognizes Adolin and starts making grand pronouncements about who he is and how he’s going to conquer Azimir. Thanks to this little speech, Adolin has time to get set. He quickly realizes that Abidi’s maces are lined in aluminum, as he’s unable to slice one with his Blade. However, Abidi isn’t flying, so Adolin wonders if he might have nicked his gemheart in Shadesmar. Not that it matters, as Abidi is quite deadly enough without flying. Adolin retreats and Abidi doesn’t follow. They’ll have other chances to face off later on.
When Abidi calls the singers to retreat, they actually go into Shadesmar, likely to revise their assault plan, and Adolin goes to put the next part of his own plans into motion. He needs the Azish and his own troops to be unified and fighting together, so he leaves Maya with his troops to celebrate and seeks out Yanagawn and Kushkam. We’ll see the results of that conversation next week! But for now, Adolin’s first chance to defend the city has been successful.
Lyndsey’s Commentary: Character Arcs and Maps
Chapter 40 features Talenelat (Talenel, Taln), Herald of War, the patron of the Stonewards. And understandably so, as it’s his monastery Kaladin and Szeth enter first. Taln also might be representing Adolin here, in his attribute of dependability and his role of soldier. Interestingly, we also have Vedeledev (the patron of the Edgedancers) represented. Her attributes are Loving/ Healing and her role is Healer. I’m not entirely sure why she’s here, to be honest…
In chapter 41 we see Nale portrayed twice, Taln once, and Kalak once. It’s a little unusual to have three (or four) heralds portrayed, so this bears noting. Nale is probably here because Szeth is, and because so much Skybreaking is going on. Taln most likely represents Adolin again, in his role as the dependable soldier. And Kalak? Well, Szeth is facing off against a Willshaper, so that tracks.
Szeth
“Or perhaps this punishment is what my people deserve.”
You know… I can’t really blame Szeth for experiencing a little schadenfreude in regards to his people. They did exile him for telling the truth about the Voidbringers, after all, in addition to this whole Unmade business. Still, it’s a bit much to feel any joy over the torture of an entire people, innocents included.
In regards to Szeth’s relationship with his spren, 12124… gotta say, I hate it. 12124 is so manipulative, and poor traumatized Szeth doesn’t realize it. It’s using praise like an abusive partner would, imbuing a false sense of security and love, only to force Szeth to do things that put him in harm’s way. If Szeth could have used his surge of Division at any time in the battle, he could have ended it quicker. But 12124 held him back from using it. We know that this bond isn’t meant to last, as Szeth breaks it at the end of the book, and good for him, but it’s painful to see the beginning of this arc.
Adolin
“Yes, sir!” Kaminah said as he tossed back the spyglass. “Sir? Where will you be waiting for them?”
“Waiting?” Adolin said, pulling on his helmet. Then he threw himself off the balcony.
Yet another example to chalk up on the “Adolin’s the storming best” board. Throughout these two chapters he displays his usual characteristics of martial skill and wisdom in regards to tactics, but what I’d like to take a moment to note is his growing relationship with Maya. They’re working in concert so well, with her pointing out things in his blind spots and morphing her shape to better aid him in battle. It’s great to see, and yet another portent of their eventual bond (note the lack of capital B) when they become Unoathed.
Tactics
In these chapters, we see the Azish pull their innermost ring of soldiers back to create a thicker line of defense as the Singer forces begin spilling out of the gate. Several Heavenly Ones and Direforms join the fray, and Adolin jumps in to square off against them, ordering the archers to fire from the outskirts.
Drew’s Commentary: Invested Arts and Theories
You know the deal by now. It’s time to check in with the Sleepless.
The Heralds are essentially no more. They are rejected by their Blades.
It’s easy to read this and go “Oh yep, makes sense” and move right on by. I did so the first time I read the epigraphs. But on a reread (when I’m not blazing through all the epigraphs in one go, since my first time reading Wind and Truth didn’t include them) this gave me pause. “The Heralds are no more”—sure, that makes sense. They’ve been slacking for millennia at this point, insane and ineffective. Only Nale and Ishar have their Honorblades.
But what’s up with “They are rejected by their Blades”???? Is this just the Sleepless being dramatic, or is there actually some metaphysical interaction at work here? Are Ishar and Nale not getting the full use of their Honorblades? Is this a result of Honor’s growing independence (and recalcitrance)? It would be fascinating to find out that the reason Nale bonded a highspren and seems to mostly use his sprenblade, rather than the Honorblade, is because of the fallout post-Aharietiam and the Honorblade becoming more difficult to work with after the death of Tanavast.
And then there’s this doozy:
We must travel to the Well of Control, within the shroud of the fragments of the dead moon.
That dang fourth moon, huh?
Obviously “Well of Control” refers to Odium’s perpendicularity (well, now it’s Retribution’s) but the dead moon… This feels like the sort of mystery that’s going to torment Cosmere theorists until late in this series. Let’s be honest: Who actually expects Brandon to explain that mystery right away in Book Six? I sure don’t.
But it’s a tantalizing mystery for more reasons than just that. The three moons of Roshar are so clearly symbolically tied to the three Shards in residence—violet Salas for Odium, blue Nomon for Honor, and green Mishim for Cultivation.
This fourth moon crashed into Roshar before the arrival of Honor and Cultivation. Does that mean it crashed before the Shattering? Maybe soon afterward, or even at the moment of Adonalsium’s demise?
The Rosharan system was constructed in a deliberate manner by Adonalsium for reasons that remain shrouded. Did Adonalsium know of the eventual Shattering and custom-make a system for those three Shards? Perhaps it was an imperfect vision of the future, and a fourth Shard was supposed to join them but didn’t, and the moon crashed when that fate was sealed?
Or maybe the moon was Connected directly to Adonalsium, and thus found its ruin at the moment of the Shattering…
There are so many wild possibilities at work here. Do you have a pet theory? Share it in the comments!
“All this time the Shin knew that the enemy hadn’t been defeated? That the Heralds were among us?”
This is played as a pretty big revelation, but I have a hard time grappling with it. At the scale we’re talking about—millions of Shin, if not tens of millions, over a span of 4500 years—it seems absolutely unbelievable that this information never got out into the wider world of Roshar. It makes me wonder if Ishar (or more probably Nale, given his whole Law thing) was taking an active hand in suppressing the information outside of Shinovar. I could see them keeping an eye on any known subversives who didn’t toe the party/religion line and stepping in to silence them if they looked like they might be spreading the knowledge east of the mountains.
A Stoneward would have two Surges, and he’d never faced this combination before. […] The flowing control of stone echoed a Willshaper, mixed with some limited access to the strange abilities of a Bondsmith.
While fan reception to the Pokémon Gym Leader-style Shinovar sequence has been mixed, I think we can all agree that this first duel, at least, is cool as hell. As Szeth points out, the Stoneward Honorblade has been lost for 4500 years, so he’s unfamiliar with the particular interplay between Cohesion and Tension. It’s a pretty darn awesome fight, though I admit I’m left a little wanting in terms of range of abilities.
We mostly see the Willshaper/stoneshaping stuff going on here, which is visually very interesting, but I don’t see much in this duel that could speak to the unique resonance between Cohesion and Tension. It feels like Brandon is really trying to save some of this stuff for some big set pieces in the back half of the series… and yes, we’ll talk about this again later, when we get to THAT Taln scene.
That said, Szeth finally unlocks Division here. Whooo boy, was that a good moment.
He set the very air alight as he moved.
Talk about visually interesting. There are a handful of moments in this book that stand out to me as things where Brandon had a very clear mental image of what it’d look like on the big screen; this is one of them.
He stumped back then, as the body disintegrated. Becoming black smoke, leaving only empty clothing behind.
This phenomenon was a great mystery the first time through, wondering what the heck was up with the Stone Shamans and which Unmade was at work in Shinovar. With the knowledge of a reread, we know that they’re a sort of homemade Fused, created by Ishar, allowing for rebirth and construction of new bodies. It’s another great visual, and creepy to consider. Cognitive Shadows all have various issues with their minds—whether it’s the long abrasion of time eroding their sanity, their need for memory storage, or the amnesia of the Returned—but for some reason this instance of it strikes me as more aggressively damaging. Rit can’t have been a Cognitive Shadow for very long, but she seems almost unhinged in the way she speaks to Szeth, ignoring some things he says, becoming incensed at others, and abruptly changing the subject when it suits her whims.
As usual, there isn’t much to say about Adolin’s sequences, at least from a theory or magic angle. We do get this, about Abidi’s inability to fly:
A crack can interfere with their powers. Normally they die and are reborn.
The Fused are a handful, if limited by a few different factors. Being able to crack a gemheart and remove their Surgebinding seems like a relatively minor thing, but maybe there’s a route forward, with better technology in Roshar’s future, to use sound waves to do so. That would be a neat new weapon to emerge from Urithiru with, maybe fifteen or twenty years down the line.
Anyway, that’s my cue to wrap things up. Lots of interesting possibilities in these two chapters, including one of the biggest new Cosmere mysteries for us to gnaw on over the next decade as we wait for more from Roshar!
In Closing:
Paige: I have to crow again about Adolin’s and Maya’s bond. While it’s not a Radiant bond, it does allow him to summon her instantly and to change her length, and I bet her shape, if Adolin wished it. I am very excited to see how they’re working together so far in this book! Of course, we know Maya will leave on her quest, but for now, I’m loving their dynamic.
Drew: You and Lyn are having your fun with the non-Radiant duo in Azimir, but I’m never going to shut up about these Sleepless epigraphs. The fourth moon! And how about Division in action!
Lyn: I’m glad one of us had a ton to chew over in these chapters, because with all that action happening, we didn’t have much room for fun character moments! But that’s okay, because there were some great tactics going on, and as Paige mentioned, the Adolin/Maya dynamic is just so great.
D: Yeah… This book has a lot of these action-heavy sequences. Some of them have plenty to dig into, but sometimes Brandon just wants to write his Hollywood-blockbuster moments where we get to sit back and enjoy the ride!
Fan Theories and Discussion Highlights:
L: In last week’s comments, RogerPavelle politely disagreed with me on Adolin’s motivations. I said that I thought he was humble, while Roger thinks he suffers from an inferiority complex. Thanks for the great insight, Roger! I really sat here and thought this one over, and I think you’re right. Adolin does absolutely have a lot of inferiority complex going on, and who can blame him, when you look at his father and all the Radiants surrounding him, as you pointed out? My first inclination was to say that his mom also taught him to be humble, but we don’t see much of that in him in The Way of Kings (before everyone around him starts to become super-powered and his dad’s secrets come out), do we? He’s never full of himself, but he is very self-assured. So I grant you this point, 100%.
Roger also asks this excellent question, which I’ll serve over to you, Drew, to answer:
BTW, do we know how specific numbers became associated with each Shard? Was it the order in which the Shard was taken up or something else entirely?
D: We don’t! Shard numerology has been a big topic of theories over the years, though. We do know that while many Shards have an affinity for a certain number or other, not all do. What makes that the case remains shrouded in mystery; I suspect we’ll have to wait until the Dragonsteel trilogy to get a solid answer.
L: I’d also like to draw some attention to this cool post over on Reddit discussing the women’s script. If you’re interested in languages and how they work, you might find it fascinating. (I sure did!)
We’ll be keeping an eye on the comment sections of posts about this article on various social media platforms and may include some of your comments/speculation (with attribution) on future weeks’ articles! Keep the conversation going, and PLEASE remember to spoiler-tag your comments on social media to help preserve the surprise for those who haven’t finished the book yet.
Next Monday we’re off due to the holiday weekend here in the U.S, but we’ll be back on Monday, February 24th with our discussion of chapter 42 and interludes 5 and 6!
My guess is that this represents the relationship between Adolin and Maya. As you point out, we really see how much she has healed due to Adolin’s support and belief.
I don’t know if it is Honor’s independence so much as the influence of Ishar being linked to all the Heralds and being corrupted by the piece of Odium he gained. Since they aren’t fully of Honor anymore, the blades don’t recognize them as the people they were.
Also, Maya is a Cultivation Spren.
I missed the detail of Adolin’s Shardblade growing longer during my initial read.
I am down for Drew’s sound wave weapon in Books 6-10. I hope Brandon goes there.
Has there ever been a WoB as to if Hoid had picked up a Shard, what Shard would he have picked up? Also, if Hoid picked up a Shard, which original Shard Holder would have not picked up a Shard. Is it as simple as Hoid would of replaced whichever Shard Holder whose Shard Hoid selected? Or would Hoid’s selection cause a tickle-down effect that would have resulted in the some Shard Holder being excluded? Likewise, when the people who planned and performed the Shattering did they know the exact nature of the Shards which would result?
At some point, the Shin’s attacked the rest of Roshar; tried to concur it. Was the militaristic ways had something to do with knowing that the Heralds abandoned the Oathpact? Was it only after the Shin was defeated that most of the Shin became pacifists? Or did Ishar (and/or other Heralds) do something behind the scenes to manipulate the Shin culture to be pacifist; with only the Shaman knowing the truth about the Heralds.
I do not think that only the shamans know the truth about the Heralds — back in chapter 24 (the first flashback) we hear Elid and Szeth talking about how the shamans practice with the blades, and finally Szeth tells here “Don’t speak of the swords. If the outsiders realized the treasures of the monasteries…” At that time Szeth and his family did not have particular status and certainly were not related to the monasteries.
As to Hoid’s role in the Shattering I think we are in very deep RaFo territory, so I do not think there are any WoBs. My own feelings towards his role and then preferences and motivations become more and more dubious the more I learn about him.
The other point is a question I share. The secret can only persist while Shinovar is isolated from the rest of the world. We do know now that Rysn’s babsk met with the Farmer, a very high ranking official of the country. So we can assume, that they were very heavily supervised. The invasions would have ended the isolation and spilled the secret. I do not remember how it was described in the book (it was, that I remember), but I found a WoB, that states, that they used surges. So their neighbours could not have stopped them, so it was Ishar’s work.
Paige asked whether Ishar was somehow affecting the fight with Rit (in terms of effecting an infinite stormlight supply). I think the answer is “yes and no”, in that Ishar was not specifically putting attention on the fight to make the supply, but in that as part of creating the cognitive shadows of the honorbearers they gained a Connection to Ishar (which we know from the final scenes where he is in effect controlling large parts of their behavior), and that Connection allows them to make use of Ishar’s ability (that I hypothesize to exist) to draw Stormlight (or perhaps other Investiture, such as the “Power of Roshar”) directly from his Connection to the power of Honor. Ishar could have used his Connection to Honor as a template in the creation of these new not-quite Fused to let them pull Stormlight from him without relying on gemstones or the like.
Paige also asks about the “your family awaits” line from post-death Rit (which was quite creepy on the first read). At this point, it seems that Szeth’s mother is dead (actually dead) and his sister and father are both CS honorbearers. So the statement is true in the literal sense, and probably also true in the figurative sense that Szeth interprets it, with the other honorbearers being in effect an adopted family.
Lyn asked about Vedel on the chapter 40 heading and I’d have to agree with RogerPavelle that it’s for the healing going on with Adolin/Maya.
For chapter 41, Lyn said that Kalak’s presence would be because Szeth is “facing off against a Willshaper”, but I did not think that was true. Isn’t Szeth facing Rit bearing Taln’s blade, i.e., a Stoneward? I would say that Kalak is present for Adolin’s part, as Resolute/Builder for his efforts to integrate the Alethi into the Azish defense.
It might also be relevant for the “infinite stormlight” topic to think about how Szeth notes in this chapter that Radiants make more efficient use of stormlight than Honorbearers, since “a Radiant’s oaths aligned them to the will of Honor, making them stronger vessels”. Perhaps there is something going on where a cognitive shadow literally formed of Honor’s Investiture is perfectly aligned (modulo the corruption from Odium’s power) to Honor’s will and thus can just hold stormlight perfectly and use it very efficiently.
Drew noted that it was very interesting to read “they are rejected by their blades” (and I agree). What seems the most straightforward interpretation to me aligns with RogerPavelle’s take, that the Heralds are corrupted by Ishar having taken in a chunk of Odium’s power and thus the Heralds are no longer aligned with their honorblades that are pure power of Honor. But there are some other factors throughout the book that make me think that might be too simplistic an interpretation. We see the Honorblades formed as nuggets of power taken directly from Honor’s avatar and handed to the proto-Heralds to form blades, along with the remark (later) that making the Heralds (unspecified how the balance lies between the Heralds and their Blades) was the largest piece of his power that he had given. We also hear Nightblood say that he’s been talking to the Honorblades and learned how to grant surges from them. And we, of course, know that a sufficient concentration of Investiture left to itself will become sentient. So it does not seem a huge stretch to say that the blades, as sentient creatures, understand that they are aligned with Honor and refuse to function (as well) for the Heralds as they would given full alignment. We do see Ishar do lots of Bondsmith things in RoW and get referred to as “Bondsmith Unchained”, which we are supposed to conclude is due to the use of the Honorblade without Honor’s presence to mediate it; however, we know now that he also has access to power via Odium’s well and it’s unclear whether that would allow him the ability to use the surges even in the absence of a collaborating Honorblade.
Drew also asked for pet theories about the fourth moon. Mine is a bit complicated and touches on a broader pet theory I have, relating to some of the events Dalinar experiences that are not satisfactorily explained. In essence, the theory is that there is a fourth shard active on Roshar, though probably not with their full power. Valor and Reason both cannot be found by the other Shards, and could be using the remnants of the fourth moon to hide some of themself from the other shards while residing on Roshar. The moon could have been present to recognize that the fourth shard would be involved, but broke apart as the shard distributed its power to avoid detection. What would this shard have been doing on Roshar? I like to think that Nohadon was actually an avatar of this shard, subtly influencing events of his future/our present. That would give a reason for Nohadon to have refused Tanavast’s offers of immortality (it would lead to discovery), and also provide a clear mechanism for Nohadon as a self-aware entity to both be hanging out in the Spiritual Realm for Dalinar to talk to and explain how Dalinar could be drawn into visions with Nohadon (most notably, the one near the end of WaT with the bread and the childlike avatar of Honor). Perhaps this story becomes a little more elegant if, rather than being a Shard, it is a remnant of Adonalsium acting in this way, but I don’t see a mechanism for that remnant to remain active and my theory aligns pretty well with there being those Shards that cannot be found.
Drew also remarked on the way the fight with Rit did not show the resonance of cohesion/tension at all. Given that no one at all has known about Stoneward abilities and been willing to talk about them for millenia (I guess the Heralds other than Taln have some idea but are not talking), and we’ve seen our modern-day Radiants struggling to understand the full scope of their abilities, I wonder if it’s plausible that the Shin shamans simply haven’t discovered it themselves, yet, and are just using the skills they already know from practicing with the other Honorblades (albeit with greatly increased power).
A new variant on this theory occurred to me while pondering this week’s reread: what if the fourth moon is a gigantic mass of godmetal (Reason might make a little more sense than Valor), and the nature of the godmetal is why it shrouds the other Shards’ vision nearby and interferes with Dai-Gonarthis’s elseporting abilities? Do we even have a sense of scale for how much godmetal you would get if you turned all of a Shard’s Investiture into it?
Looking over my notes from my local reread, I also want to highlight that the “rejected by their blades” is unqualified with respect to Taln, so presumably Taln is also rejected by his blade, even though Taln did not break. (I guess the Heralds don’t use their blades on Braize and are just hiding from the Fused?) This may also be of interest for the question of how Taln came to be separated from his blade — if he was actively rejected by it then he might have just left it around or been more amenable to a swap than he otherwise would. But that still doesn’t really explain how the Stone Shamans knew to go look for it and where to find it — I kind of have to assume that either Ishar or Nale tipped them off.
This, in turn, reminded me of the claim later on that Jezrien’s blade has been totally corrupted, but I guess we should wait to theorize about that until the reread gets there.
It is possible that Taln’s blade has not rejected him and that is why Rit was able to use stormlight so much efficiently than other honorbearers.
So you re theorizing that there is actually a 17th Shard.
My thought was that the Well of Control related back to where Rysn’s Dawnshard was kept. However, if you are correct about it being tied to Adonalsium’s creation of Roshar, maybe it was a control room where the building blocks were manipulated.
I’m not sure if I buy Nohadon being an avatar of a fourth Shard. Based on personality and writings, he would fit with Reason more than Valor, and Jasnah believed in Reason but it fails her. But, Kaladin and Adolin (and many others) seem more tied to Valor. So, in some ways it could be both of them hiding there, or neither, but only one doesn’t work for me.
I was mostly leaning towards not a 17th shard, but I can’t definitively rule it out, especially if we are going to take a stance that Adonalsium foresaw the Shattering and planned for events after it.
Oh huh, I would not have gotten to the cavern of Rysn’s Dawnshard from “Well of Control”, but I do see now how you could get there. (I still think it’s Odium’s pool under the shattered plains, though.)
And yes, Reason vs Valor is a bit of a weak spot in this theory … but I can get behind “both” :)
Maya’s ability to change shape started earlier: later in this book, Vyre/Moash was practicing throwing Jezrien’s Honorblade and it didn’t fly as true as Adolin’s Blade. Maya may have been self correcting her path in flight after Adolin threw her
The Shin farmers said they had to work the fields at night when “the ground cannot see us” and that this is “as commanded by the shaman”. On the face of it, that makes no sense — the ground has no eyes that would be subject to the vagaries of illumination. And futhermore, if “shaman” here means “Honorbearer” that is literally the entity whose death frees the people from the darkness — why would they command the farmers to do something so that their own darkness does not swallow them up during the day? Even if we are positing that there is a “spren of the ground” involved in the “seeing” here, the life-sense should not be affected by darkness. I did consider an analogue to how Maya “sees” through Adolin’s eyes, but there’s not really anyone around to be performing the role of Adolin here (even if we do know that Ishar is Connected to the land, and perhaps has delegated some of that Connection to the Honorbearer seeing as killing the Honorbearer lifted a darkness from the people). I suppose it could just be that Ishar sleeps at night (do we actually know that he sleeps?), but find it more interesting to surmise that there is a lingering effect of the Night as an active protector. Later in the book, Honor relects that Night, Stone, and Wind were shadows of divinity with “instructions to protect, to shroud, to nurture” (but it does not do so in a way that gives a direct indication of which is which. This is actually an interesting quetsion given that Cultivation, whose Intent would align with “nurture” picked the Night rather than the Stone (and we know that Honor picked the Wind). But the naive interpretation of the Night as being the closest to a “shroud” would also align with what is described here with something (perhaps the Night) shrouding the farmers from whatever would cause the ground to swallow them up otherwise.
The Stone Shamans are different from the Honorbearers. The are the people who run the temples (such as Neturo before he became an Honorbearer). My guess is that the Honorbearers are not active at night, or at least have to see people in order for Ishar to affect them. Farming at night (if there is no moons shining) would provide a bit of protection that way.
It was interesting to hear Rit say that she envies Szeth for “the oppportunity you are granted” implying that she knew of the plan to make a new Herald. Ishar knows, of course, but Ishar would not envy Szeth the opportunity since he’s already a Herald. So there’s some level of the original Rit remaining to be jealous even if some of Ishar’s knowledge does leak through.
And I was also hoping that Drew would have some commentary on the whole “talking after she died” and “corpse vanishing into black smoke” things — is that just “normal” cognitive shadow behavior, or something specific to Ishar’s corrupted nature?