This week on the Oathbringer Reread, Aubree and I will be taking a disturbing journey into the Heart of the Revel with Shallan/Veil/Kishi/whoever the heck Shallan’s pretending to be at the moment… Stay tuned for giant black blob of gluttony vs the woman of a million faces! And simultaneously, in one corner of the Kholinar wall… the boy blue, the brooding wonder, the Shardbearer supreme—Kaaaaaaaaaladin Stormblessed! In the other corner, also in blue, the Worldly Woman, the Princess of Persuasion, the Commander in Chief—Viv—I mean, Azure! Who will reign supreme in these two battles before us?
Well, we won’t find out this week as one ends in a distraction and the other in a timely escape, but come along anyway and join us in the comments!
(I’m just now realizing that I have a tendency towards using Wrestling-style intros for some reason, despite the fact that I don’t much care for wrestling… Look, it’s just fun, all right?)
Reminder: We’ll potentially be discussing spoilers for the entire novel in each reread. There may be some small spoilers for Warbreaker in here as well, since a certain Worldhopper is present. As always, if you haven’t read ALL of Oathbringer, best to wait to join us until you’re done.
Chapter Recap
WHO: Veil, Kaladin
WHERE: Kholinar (not bothering with a map this week, as all of the events take place either on the wall or the Oathgate platform.)
WHEN: 1174.2.3.2 (same day as the previous chapter)
Veil arrives at the Oathgate plaza and presents her offering, thereby gaining access to the platform and the revelers on it. She is assigned a “guide,” but easily ditches him and makes her way into the center of the platform, where she encounters a giant pulsating mass of goo. Her “shadow” informs her that it’s a trap, and Veil takes over again to extract Shallan from the situation.
Meanwhile, Kaladin cozies up to Azure in an attempt to get more information from her. They parry questions back and forth for a few minutes before they hear the drums heralding an impending attack…
Truth, Love, and Defiance
Title: The Revel
Heralds
Jezrien, protecting/leading, Windrunners. Battah, wise/careful, Elsecallers.
It’s pretty clear that Jezrien’s here because Kaladin and Azure are embodying his trait of leadership. Battah, I believe, is present because Shallan is certainly being very careful as she progresses into the Heart of the Revel. In a way, we could say that Kal’s represented by this too, as he’s being awfully selective in his replies to Azure’s questions (and vice versa).
Icon
Pattern, usually indicative of a Shallan POV chapter, though she shares this one with Kaladin.
Epigraph
A coalition has been formed among scholar Radiants. Our goal is to deny the enemy their supply of Voidlight; this will prevent their continuing transformations, and give us an edge in combat.
-From drawer 30-20, second emerald
L: Interesting tidbit here, as always from the Drawer-Stones. When they say continuing transformations, I wonder if this is referring to the different forms the Listeners already have and can switch between (envoy, war, etc), or if they mean that these forms are continuously evolving into new ones.
AP: I mean, they are pretty constantly transforming, from the point of view of humans who can’t shapeshift.
L: I also find the part about denying them Voidlight to be really interesting. Were they trying to find a way to end the Everstorm, or maybe sever the Listeners’ connection with Odium?
AP: I think this is the plan that ends in the creation of the Parshmen. Cutting them off from the rhythms entirely. It worked better than they could have ever expected.
Stories & Songs
However, not long after starting, she began to hear the voice.
Let go.
Give up your pain.
Feast. Indulge.
Embrace the end.
L: Yikes. I can certainly see how this might be attractive to a population who’s given up hope of rescue.
AP: Definitely! There are lots of voices going around in Kholinar these days. It makes me wonder who is susceptible to being able to hear the Unmade. Is it the same cracks in the spirit web that allow potential bonds with spren? Are these poor unfortunate souls we see at the revel the population of potential Radiants in Kholinar that have just been neutralized?
L: I don’t know, I don’t think there would be enough “cracked” people. I think the Unmade is just relying on people who are depressed and have no hope. It’s easier to convince someone to just give in and accept the end if they’re already halfway there to begin with.
AP: But in cosmere terms, isn’t depression a type of spirit web crack? There should have been hundreds of Radiants already. And instead because of a combination of deliberate interference and the Heralds abandoning their duty, we have… ten? And a handful of squires. Odds are bleak. To me, this fits into the pattern of squashing the Radiants before they can even get started.
Buy the Book
Fate of the Fallen
L: I always viewed it as… more of a traumatic event than “just” depression. (I am putting “just” in quotations here to hopefully make it clear that I’m not downplaying depression—I suffer from it as well.) All of the people we’ve seen so far who have “gone Radiant” have had some pretty hefty traumas to deal with—some in addition to preexisting conditions. Kaladin’s little brother died “because” of him and he was also “responsible” for the deaths of his men, and getting thrown into slavery and all… Shallan killed her father, Dalinar killed his own wife, Teft’s got his drug addiction, Eshonai felt she failed her entire people… It just seems like, within the context of the story, it takes an Inciting Event to crack a soul. The hairline cracks may be there to start, but it’s the Event that cracks them open like an egg and allows the Bond to take place. This is my own speculation, of course, but… we’ll see!
The voices in her head combined from whispers to a kind of surging rhythm. A thumping of impressions, followed by a pause, followed by another surge. Almost like…
L: A song, perhaps? (I realize it’s supposed to be like a heartbeat, but I can’t help but wonder if there might not also be a connection here to the Rhythms.)
AP: I think that’s definitely a potential connection! But the heart imagery is undeniable.
She looked to the side, and found her shadow on the ground, pointed the wrong way, toward the moonlight instead of away from it. The shadow crept up the wall, with eyes that were white holes, glowing faintly.
I’m not your enemy. But the heart is a trap. Take caution.
L: Hello, Unmade #2! (Also, I can’t help but see that shadow as a Heartless from Kingdom Hearts…)
AP: Oh geez, now I do too! I’m also not really sure what to make of Sja-anat. I keep thinking she is playing the long game and this is another deception. I definitely don’t think the Unmade are working together in a coherent way. Actually, I’m not sure if they are capable of working together. TBD.
L: For some weird reason, I trust her. Time will tell if that backfires on me…
AP: I really, really hope you are right though! I want to like/trust her. I just don’t yet.
Bruised & Broken
Should she have created a new persona, a false face, to not expose Veil?
But Veil is a false face, a part of her said. You could always abandon her.
She strangled that part of her, smothered it deep. Veil was too real, too vital, to abandon. Shallan would be easier.
L: I suspect that this is going to wind up being a major character moment for her in a later book. She’s going to have to make a choice and “kill” one or the other. I am disturbed that she thinks killing off Shallan would be easier—but it does make sense. Shallan is deeply damaged, and she doesn’t like to look too deeply at that. Veil is confident and doesn’t come with years worth of emotional baggage. Of course it would be easier to kill off the part of her that’s more “damaged.” Fixing herself will take work. Giving herself up to Veil is easy.
AP: I agree. I think that Shallan needs to reconcile her personas in order to really heal. It would be super dramatic if she actually had to destroy one or the other.
Within that ring, time wouldn’t matter. She could forget Shallan, and what she’d done. Just… give in…
L: Kishi is a particularly dangerous persona for her to adopt right now. I rather wish she’d stuck with Veil. She’s already inclined towards trying to “be” someone else, and Kishi is one of the revelers. This is putting her perilously close to actually crossing that line and joining them.
AP: It’s like the ultimate form of method acting!
Squires & Sidekicks
This wasn’t the type of inspection that was intended to actually find problems–this was a chance for the men to show off for their highmarshal. They swelled as she told them they “just might be the finest platoons of fighting men I’ve ever had the privilege of leading.” Kaladin was certain he’d heard those same words from Amaram.
L: It’s really nice to see someone else who understands how to build morale and forge bonds of loyalty.
AP: I just plain like Azure here. It’s great to see the character development from where she started on Nalthis.
L: Same. I wasn’t really a huge fan of her in Warbreaker, but I love who she’s become! (Granted, I am partial to badass women in armor carrying weapons, so…)
AP: I mean, same…
Then Kaladin and Azure threw themselves back from the bench at nearly the same time. “To arms!” Kaladin shouted. “There’s an attack on the wall!”
L: Kal, 1. Azure, 0.
AP: He’s tipping his hand here! It isn’t going to matter much veeerrrry sooooonnn.
Places & Peoples
She must have spent time as a mercenary out west, Kaladin thought. Sigzil had once told him that women fought in the west, particularly among mercenaries.
L: I wonder if he means that Alethi women fought, or that the women of those particular countries did? With the Alethi aversion to female fighters, this really makes me wonder. Also… what does he mean by “out west,” exactly? Almost everything is west of Kholinar.
AP: I think he is referring to Alethi women, since he makes a point of thinking how very Alethi Azure looks. I could definitely see Alethi women who didn’t fit into the very strict gender expectations leaving to join mercenary groups. But since, as you say, everything is west, it could just as easily be other countries/cultures.
Tight Butts and Coconuts
“How did you end up in this city?” Azure asked. “Sadeas’s lands are far to the north. There are several armies of Voidbringers between here and there, by report.”
“I flew.”
L: I have to giggle at Kal’s flippant (yet honest) response here. Their back-and-forth is fantastic—both subtly testing the other, trying to wean out some information. It’s a bit like watching a tennis match, neither player quite managing to get the ball past the other.
“I am your commanding officer, you realize. You should answer me when I ask questions.”
“I’ve given answers,” Kaladin said. “If they aren’t the ones you want, then perhaps your questions aren’t very good.”
L: Kal with the sass-attack!
AP: But also? This is a problem. Kal is very bad at accepting orders. We’ve seen several times where he just does his own thing and undermines the command structure. I expect that this will eventually have serious consequences.
L: Well… he’s good at following orders if he believes that his commanding officer knows what they’re doing. Which… honestly, doesn’t make him a terribly good soldier in some respects. There’s a fine line between “I’m not following this order because I think I know better” (cough Poe Dameron cough) and “I’m not following this order because I am morally opposed to it.” We’ve already seen him screw this up a few times—when he tries the side carry in The Way of Kings, and when he challenges Sadeas after Adolin’s disastrous three vs one duel in Words of Radiance. Now… technically, he does outrank Azure here, and he probably does have more information at his disposal than she does. But it’s still a problematic tendency that I hope doesn’t wind up biting him in the ass.
Cosmere Connections
She was also very Alethi, with the skin tone and hair, her eyes a glimmering light orange.
L: I have to admit I don’t recall descriptions of Vivenna with any real clarity save for the Royal Locks. Has she disguised herself somehow, or do her country’s physical characteristics just line up particularly well with those of the Alethi?
AP: The hair!! She is exceptionally good at controlling her emotions, and keeping her hair black, as mentioned in Warbreaker. Black hair is traditionally Alethi. The eyes I’m not sure about. I can’t tell if it’s Rosharan weirdness because of her “shardblade” connection, or if she can change more than her hair now. I don’t recall her skin tone being mentioned in Warbreaker, so I don’t know if that’s significant or not.
L: Yeah, it was more the skin tone that threw me than anything. Being able to change your own hair color at will sure is a handy trick—wish I could do it, it would make cosplaying so much easier!
A Scrupulous Study of Spren
She could feel Pattern’s vibrations on her coat. It seemed to counteract the voices, clearing her head.
L: Something supernatural going on here (their bond blocking the interference of the Unmade), or is it simply something “real” that’s keeping her from spiraling down into the Revel, anchoring her?
AP: I think it’s intentional interference. Pattern’s humming rhythms could possibly be a good tool to disrupt the Rhythms of the Unmade. Lightweavers should definitely have a tool that lets them disrupt deception that comes from another source. We have only seen one Lightweaver so far, but it seems to me that they should be able to see through or counteract the effects of other Lightweavers.
Sheer Speculation
…one of the guards held up a torch—not a sphere lamp…
L: Why aren’t they using spheres? Do the Unmade perhaps have fear of spheres being so close to them, seeing as how the Stormlight is being contained in gems much as the Unmade could be? These aren’t “perfect” gems, but I wonder if maybe the Unmade are twitchy about any gems being nearby.
AP: Well, more practically, they know that the Knights Radiant are back. Stormlight-infused lanterns are a potential source of power for the enemy. No need to make it easier to fight you.
L: That’s a good point.
Next week we’ll be diving head first into chapters 79 and 80, as both are pretty short. Join us then and, as always, in the comments for more spirited discussion with fellow fans.
Lyndsey is happy to have finally passed her test for Basic Figure Skating Skills Level 6, and actually rather liked the ending of Game of Thrones. If you’re an aspiring author, a cosplayer, or just like geeky content, follow her work on Facebook or her website.
Aubree is really looking forward to going to a party this weekend! But not that kind of party…
2 thoughts: for now i trust sja-anat. Partly because the book has otherwise done a good job of breaking up the notion of clear cut ‘good side’ and ‘bad side’. We know malata and spark are on team ‘kill everyone’ and renarin and glys are on team ‘save humanity’. Why not have an unmade willing to go to break from odium to follow their own path?
I read kaladins comment about fighting in the west to mean that he heard women in other countries fought and he thought she had joined an mercenary company and gone to other countries to fight and has since returned home (to alethkar). Iirc, sadeas is fairly close to the western border as well, so out west would likely mean a different country for him. The restriction on fighting for women is religious based, so going to place with a different dominant religion would sidestep a lot of the impediments for a fighting woman.
@1 I agree on both counts. I’m trusting Sja-anat for now and I definitely take “out west” to mean out west beyond the Vorin countries. Just as when someone from the East Coast of the US says “out west” they don’t usually meant Illinois, they mean the Rockies or West Coast. Here I think “the west” refers to the region of the continent Sigzil is from.
Re: Azure’s appearance – I feel like in Warbreaker they were of lighter skin – tone (though that may just be because I remember they were from pastoral highlands and that is what it makes me picture) but I do know it has been confirmed that those of the Royal blood can change more than just their hair with practice – which I think there is a WoB that Viv has been practicing. The eyes, I think, have to be from that.
Regarding the epigraph – I don’t think this would be referring to the Everstorm as that is a new this time around, but instead a reference to the connection they have to one of the Unmade that is giving them voidlight.
I liked the discussion about Kaladin and his difficulties with orders. I think he is a great soldier when he has some responsibility and a commander he trusts. He is trouble if he doesn’t trust/respect those above him.
Finally thought: another reason it may be a torch rather than stormlight may just be the primal feel of fire. If I recall, there is a giant bonfire at the center and fire just has that feel of life and enthusiasm that fits the Revel more than the tamer, steadier stormlight.
Just a small correction: the Everstorm didn’t exist before now. I forgot who—Syl or the Stormfather, or both—but someone said it was something new.
I’m on team “trust Sja-Anat for now.” She could’ve just let them die later.
Pattern humming to disrupt the voices reminds me of the way noise cancelling headphones work. The good ones aren’t just padded, they also make sound vibrations to counter the ambient noise.
In reference to your discussion about depression, there is a difference between being depressed and depression. Anyone will become depressed in a bad situation, but I think the “spirit crack” depression is mental heath related depression, where someone becomes depressed not necessarily due to external factors but because of mental health issues.
It’s funny now how much I see the trace of Odium’s ‘let go’ in everything, especially the Revel.
I totally LOLd at your Poe Dameron jab. And now I’m trying to figure out if I think Kal and Poe would get along, or just drive each other nuts. :)
Poe is like a more rogueish Adolin I think. so i think its possible, it would depend on how they met.
@5: But Kaladin mostly gets depressed due to outside circumstances… Even if he has, technically, *clinical depression*, his bouts usually happens following an outside trigger. His moods aren’t completely random. Well, I never read them as “random” which is why I always disliked the “clinical depression” label Kaladin has to carry like a boulder.
On Depression Making Radiants:
Brandon recently told, in an interview, how *mental illness* wasn’t a theme in the series within the same manner as many readers are evisioned it. Yes, it is there, but it isn’t done on purpose. Or something along those lines, I should post the exact wordings. Anyhow, my interpretation was Kaladin having “depression” merely was a “characteristic” Brandon thought was interesting (and he was interested to write about it), a way to have the character diverge from the “generic fantasy character” he once was within his first incarnation as Merrin. It is however not why he is a Radiant, this is how I understood it.
This being said, Brandon did tell us within another WoB being broken isn’t a requirement and one needs not to have lived through tragedies to become a Radiant. He however said there is an in-world believes stating one needs to have a mental disability or a very strong trauma to become a Radiant. He said this believe wasn’t completely random as both the mental illness and the trauma would increase a given individual’s chances at being chosen.
In other words, you do not need to have a mental illness nor to have lived a tragedy to become a Radiant, but having gone through those things makes you more “interesting” to the sprens. Or maybe it is they just notice you more easily, but it is not a firm criteria. As a whole, a majority of sprens may prefer severlily emotionally damaged people, but some sprens would pick a Lopen over a Kaladin anyday.
I assume the reverse is also true, having a “clinical depression” label doesn’t mean a spren will pick you to become a Radiant as being a Radiant seems to be more linked to your personality, not so much what ails you even if the in-world characters believe the opposite.
On the side note not really linked to this chapter, but a little bit: I was recently wondering what Dalinar now thinks of Sadeas now he remembers his past… We know he wasn’t pleased by his death, early in the book, due to his firm belief he might have *still* convinced his former friend to fight for them. He definitely valued Sadeas as a War General. We also later see Dalinar imploring Amaram to make a different choice, I always presumed Dalinar meant “changing” followed by “Radiant”. So, would Dalinar now be angry his old comparse Sadeas was killed before being offered the chance to change, before being put in front of the choice to make a “journey”? In other words, will Dalinar, who remains one of the greatest offender in terms of barbarious actions, feel Sadeas’s chances at making a journey and becoming a Radiant were taken away from him?
After all, Dalinar once was a terrible man. He no longer is in a position to judge people based on their actions, for if he removes them the chance to redeem themselves, then he has to remove it from himself too. He can however judge other people wanting to pass judgment on the Sadeas of this world based on their actions.
Is it possible this whole redemption theme will backfire in having the Radiants siding up with criminals and murderers for the odd chance they might make it to the Nahel Bond? Will the “broken” and the “tragedy” idea being the Radiants end up being pushed a tad too far by the existing Radiants in their need to increase their ranks?
We have now entered into “the long boring part” of the book, for this reader. Kaladin irritates me and he’s too darn present from this point on for tens of thousands of words.
@8 – I don’t think that trauma makes a person more interesting to a spren. The cracks in their spirit web make it easier for the spren to get in there and form a bond.
My guess is that Kharat is Brother Lhan.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
@9 I’m sorry carl, but I find the book gets better when they are out of this Damntion city. this is just the worst part and we’re finally wrapping up
@8 That’s true. I mean, even if the blurb on the back of the book and I think syl says that radiants need to be “broken” we have a strong evidence that’s not nessaricly the case: The Lopen. from his pov points, few as they are, he’s as optimistic as he appears to be, yes he has had tragedy happen to him, but he takes it at full face value. ONe of my favorite lines from him is: “you were picking someone, so that person had to be special, and I wanted to be that person” he gets his second oath by not admitting his failings or a deep vow, but something as simple as keeping people cheered up, protecting them from themselves. Makes you wonder if Tien had a similar aspect to him.
also, in order for people to change, they must want that change. sadeas clearly didn’t, even when proven wrong he outrights says: “I’m gonna keep betraying you no matter what happens!” sadeas is different than dalinar. dalinar regrets his actions. Sadeas reveled in them. It doesn’t mean dalinar is gonna commit seppuku and kill himself just because he thinks sadeas COUld have changed or imprison and hang himself as you seem to want him too, as that’s in the past, he’s has to be better and take the next step.
This is exactly what Jasnah experienced when the Inkspren were observing her, back in her flashback chapter. Reversed shadows relate to the reverse-sun of the Cognitive Realm, I presume. Shallan must be on the very fringe of Shadesmar for this scene.
Sja-Anat’s eyes are “white holes” in her face? This makes her a reverse deadeye, doesn’t it?
Eyes are super-important on Roshar, it seems. Lighteyes, deadeyes, eye color changes when you use Stormlight, red eyes for Voidbringers ….
Some Cosmere spoilers below (but not whited out):
All the Cosmere Shardworlds have their unique focus, looks like. Scadrial has metals. Sel has written symbols. Nalthis has color. (First of the Sun has … parasitic worms? Symbiosis? Wait a bloody second: the epigraphs here say that a bud of Autonomy is on First of the Sun, but the magic there is the polar opposite of autonomy, symbiosis?) Wossname, Autonomy’s main world, has water-based magic.
@7: I agree. Poe follows his gut and is impulsive despite his training: much like Adolin. Adolin follows his guts and takes on more complicated tasks he can managed independentaly of how he feels next to the chain of command. Kaladin tends to think orders do not apply to him, no matter who they come from, but he isn’t doing it because his guts tell him otherwise, he’s doing more because he doesn’t care about the command structure. He is not roguish nor impulsive, that would be Adolin. Kaladin thinks before he acts whereas Adolin jumps in the melee both eyes closed then thinks of how he can prevail.
@9: Yeah… That’s definitely the most boring part of the book, the one readers usually complain about when it comes to the pacing. My thoughts haven’t changed since re-read, while I do think the over-arching narrative is interesting, I find the elements Brandon chose to focus on weren’t. Or not they are void of interest, but focusing on Shallan splitting herself and Kaladin meeting new people when they are inside a crumbling city filled with unknowns was an odd choice. And the pacing definitely suffered for it. Slow paced narratives aren’t necessarily bad or uninteresting, but they have to focus on interesting narrative elements. In here, the narrative relies on the readers wanting to read Shallan’s inner problems and being engaged in Kaladin developing a relationship with the Tower Guards.
I’d rather Brandon had focused on the city, the Unmades, the tension and the drama as opposed to writing Kaladin feeling fuzzingly happy at sharing stew with a group of soldiers, but huh I guess we can’t have everything we want!
@10: Thus it makes them more interesting, whatever their reasons, sprens do prefer tragically broken people even if they don’t have to.
@11: Love that quote from Lopen, he really grew on me and I can definitely relate to the: “Everyone is special, I want to be special too.”. I agree Tien was probably a similar case.
I agree Sadeas would have needed to want to change, but if we go down too deep within this philosophy, then everyone is entitled to a redemption. Pushing it father, once you are a Radiant, whatever you once did matters not: you could have flawer one baby per day, if you somehow make it to Radiant-level, this horrible crime would be erased from your track record. The length of time you spent being a criminal also is irrelevant.
As soon as you agree a man like Dalinar can be allowed to have butchered/burned people for decades, then wallow in self-pity for 6 years without being denied a second chance, a redemption and a Nahel Bond, then you agree every single other human beings have the same right. You then move onto a philosophy stating each criminal is nothing more than a Radiant in-waiting providing he can manage to feel properly guilty. It makes laws irrelevant, punishment inconsequential as if Dalinar was allowed so much time to change, then everyone else should.
Sadeas thus isn’t a crem bag, he’s just a man not having chosen to change yet. I can see Dalinar embracing this thought process as if he could change, anyone can. So how can he ever be hard on “bad people” when he was worst? His sympathy will naturally go towards those having lived through similar circumstances, that’s only natural, but what conflict will it create with those who’d think men like Sadeas are unredeemable?
Dalinar spent a very long time being unredeemable, he cannot claim anyone else is and that includes Sadeas. Even if we have very good indications he would have never redeemed himself, had we been reading young Dalinar, we’d think the same.
I can see all of this clashing, just as I could see the Radiants being too quick to forgive due to their past.
Team Sja-Anat here, and definitely NOT team Veil. I dislike Veil not just because she is taking over Shallen but because she is so false. What makes her attractive to Shallen is a completely false backstory. Her “street” smarts are based on Shallen’s misconceptions of what that life was like. When Shallen is being Radient it seems more like her but braver and and more action oriented.
Amaram knew how to be a good leader, and he was, as long as it served his purpose. He is also a tragic figure as he could have made other choices but didn’t. His bad choices were just much more limited than Dalinar’s when it came to the number of people he trampled.
Not having read anything besides the article (and, you know, the book in question) I am a bit wary of Sja-anat, if only because she hasn’t done much besides talk. While the substance of that talk is promising (e.g. warning that the heart is a trap, something she would not have reason to do if she were not interested in undermining Odium in some fashion) the actions leave something to be desired (as I recall).
As to Azure: Every time upon finishing a reread of Warbreaker, I’m filled with an intense curiosity about and investment in Vivenna as she exists during the epilogue of that story (as opposed to “Princess Vivenna” who, unfortunately, we spend a large portion of the book inhabiting). So much so that when I made the connection (it was specifically when she used the same “White on Black” metaphor as Zahel) I shouted out “VIVENNA!” with a glad cry (and naturally then had to look around for people in earshot). And honestly, she does not disappoint.
I totally agree that the story gets more interesting once they jump to Shadesmar. It just doesn’t really pick up again until they jump back out of Shadesmar. The whole Cognitive Realm travelogue could and should (in my non-humble opinion) be about 30% shorter.
Regarding Kaladin’s issues with following orders: he’s spent most of his time in any military being betrayed and mistreated by his superiors, and seeing his superiors throw away soldiers’ lives. On top of this, he’s a very skilled and innovative commander himself. It makes sense that he would trust his own judgement over that of a hostile, negligent, ineffective, or unknown commander. He seems willing to take orders from people he knows and trusts.
The “side carry” was an innovative tactic developed as an alternative to certain death. It’s not something I would criticize Kal for, as it was far prfeerable to the alternative of “suck it up and die like we want you to”.The blane lies with the commanders who built their tactics around throwing away lives.
@17: I agree. It’s a weakness of Sanderson’s worldbuilding – Shadesmar is far less interesting than it should be. The Cognitive Realm could have been muchstranger than what we’re shown (which is basically an unusual-looking place inhabited by strange-looking people, but not incredibly different from the physical realm; it has boats, buildings, etc).
On choosing Radiants: You don’t have to be crazy to be bonded but it helps! Honestly though, I think we are looking at the higher spren wrong, as if they are monolithic entities instead of individuals. Sure a certain type of spren will have characteristics they look for in a bondmate, but those vary wildly from person to person. Even in the sets of personality traits a type of spren are attracted to, one spren will value some aspects of that set more than others. Just to give an example, we got 3 Windrunners so far. Do we believe that Syl, the chooser, would have chosen anyone other than Kaladin? Teft’s spren, Phaedra, seems a serious sort for an honorspren. Do we believe she’s a good fit for the Lopen? I think we can kinda speak in general terms about what attracts spren from different Orders but they’re just that, generalities.
On Sja-Anat: I think it’s safe enough to call her at least a potential ally to team Honor. She has shown good faith and done good service both in this chapter and later on. Plus she has something essential for the formation of an alliance; self interest.
I don’t much like the Shadesmar sequence but it’s still cool because we’re getting new information, stuff we know will be relevant later on. This though? Painful in numerous ways. Even worse is that they are impossible to skip on subsequent rereads. Anyway, I hate Veil because she hates Shallan and I happen to like Shallan, broken mess that she is. And I know she isn’t truly a different person but the more Shallan treats her like one the more frightened I become that she’s gonna fall into that rabbit hole and never return. Reading about a Shallan with fake street smarts who cannot draw would be quite the journey in suckatude.
On Dalinar and future redemption: just because a person seeks redemption does not mean they are absolved from their crimes or that they cannot be punished for them. Dalinar may not condemn someone criminal due to journey before Destination talk, but to think he wouldn’t punish worthy offenses would destroy his leadership.
Furthermore, can we please stop acting as though Radiance is some type of reward for good service or clean living? It isn’t. At its core Radiance is a tool to combat Odium and his allies. For it to be a reward would require one to have a better life because of it. Kaladin and B4 barely make the cut for that condition, nobody from our main cast does. I’m a soldier in the U.S. Army. I sometimes get to carry a gun when on a mission. Guns do some cool things like Radiants do cool things. Me holding one is a sign that I may need it to defend my life or those of my comrades. Spren came back because war was imminent and people would need them to fight the enemy. If I’m issued that gun does that mean I deserved it? No,it means that in order to live I need this weapon. The fact that the spren are magical and can help a person shore up their mental fortitude should not detract from the fact that they are weapons for use against the enemy. After all, some soldiers love their guns too.
Eh, I like Shadesmar because we get to see more spren action, (and of course, Azure is pretty great in these sequences, I love the Kata training sequence our three soliders do) it helps that honestly….when they go through shadesmar, Veil is kind of gone from the narrative, and that makes my day happy no matter the chapter.
@20 and you are right, we shouldn’t be putting radiatns as a reward. its a duty they have to carry, and that duty can clearly affect people, just look at Shallan.
*grins at the intro*
Heeeyyy Ashertmarn. How’s my favorite Unmade?
OK, even Lift would disapprove of this party if she made the mistake of entering the wasted-food zone. I would probably feel the same if I was there, whether on Roshar or Earth, unless and until I gave in to the supernaturally-strengthened temptation to forget the looming doom and live in the sensual now. But from a distance, it’s a glory to behold.
Mind you, it’s reminiscent of the Flying Cocktail Party of Doom (my phrasing) in one of the Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy books, which I found deeply chilling. I guess Douglas Adams is sometimes more effective than Sanderson. :-p Or maybe it’s just that the Revel isn’t the primary thing destroying all of Roshar the way the FCPOD laid waste to its planet.
I experienced that kind of sensory insatiability last night when I stayed over at my mom’s house to hear the spring peepers calling. I had felt starved for that most precious sound of spring, but once I started listening, I couldn’t get enough. I listened for a long time and still felt deprived when I had to go indoors. (I can listen to online recordings anytime, obviously, but it’s not the same as being there). This feeling was even amplified by a sense of apocalyptic urgency, a belief that we could lose them forever at any time if the chytrid fungus that’s wiping out amphibians in many places around the world gets established here. The frogs themselves have some of that urgency, too — they don’t know about the many danger their kind face from us, but they’re short-lived little doobers whose males scream their sexual need in astoundingly loud voices until their tiny bodies wear out from the effort. So I’m feelin’ the Revel.
Misremembering the book after a year and a half, I had thought the attack on the palace came during Shallan’s first visit to the Revel. (I remembered the food tragedy and Wit’s wisdom, but thought those events would happen before the Revel). This chapter feels a little anticlimactic as a result — no disasters happen. But it provides an important set of, um, revelations.
*sigh* Yeah. The Vivenna who I unhappily related to in Warbreaker is gone, replaced by a warrior who I could never hope to become. :-( I’m glad she’s not suffering as much, and would like to know more about her journey of transformation, but she’s a stranger to me now.
I think the only things we learned about her appearance as of Warbreaker was that she had Royal Locks and is taller than her sister Siri.
Radiance is conferred as a weapon of war, but readers can lose sight of that in our envy of the Radiants’ collective abilities to fly, heal others, heal themselves, make amazing illusions, etc.
@Aerona
“Radiance is conferred as a weapon of war, but readers can lose sight of that in our envy of the Radiants’ collective abilities to fly, heal others, heal themselves, make amazing illusions, etc.”
Yeah it can be difficult to look at these amazing abilities wielded by these awesome people and think envious thoughts, feeling that these are such abilities that should come as a reward. For me it’s about knowing that those abilities did not make their lives all that much better, but allows them to endure the crapstorm life and Odium is about to throw their way. It’s not a cure-all for their issues, Kal is still depressed, Shallan is losing her identity, Dalinar still deals with a bloody past as does Szeth, Teft is still an addict ect. They do get a pocket therapist so I guess that’s a good thing. Maybe we are being influenced and informed in our opinions of Radiants by Adolin, much in the same way that our opinions about Jasnah are informed by the severe heroine worship displayed by Shallan Davar.
@15: Team “I hate Veil” here too, for all of the reasons you mentioned.
On Shadesmar: Team “It should have been more interesting” here too. Overall, I was fine with the setting, I loved the fact Part 4 has the most Adolin viewpoints (obviously), but somehow the team’s entire time there felt misused. There was a strong potential for team tension, drama, and adventure, but it was somehow transformed into a trip to a market. So I don’t hate it, but I don’t love it. I am looking forward to more Shadesmar as I do find it interesting, but hopefully this time Brandon will get some bizarre sprens attacking our characters or something.
On Radiants: Maybe my perspective differs from others, but from where I stand, being a Radiant may come with its share of struggles, but so does everyone’s life. Being a Radiant, however, gives you instant status, it erases your debts or mistakes and it almost guarantees you will not die in the wars.
Not dying, having a fighting advantage when your entire world is at war and you can’t escape it, when you don’t get to choose whether you fight or not, then having magical powers is not just a gift, it is basically the difference in between seeing the sunrise the next day and not.
But I guess we each have our own perspective.
On Past Deeds: What I meant is once you accept there is no limit to redemption, once you state no one is too far gone, once you agree murders can be nothing more than “mistakes on the way to a journey”, then you open to door to a system where no one is ever held accountable. I just wonder if this is going to become an issue. The lines can get quite blurry quite fast.
Ditto on Shadesmar. I didn’t dislike it, but as with most of this book, it had too little flora and fauna for my taste. Even the spren were too humanoid.
I wouldn’t trust Sja-Anat. She has her own goals. Some of them may align with Team-Honor, some of them may not.
#20. @EvilMonkey:
That’s the case, but the characters do the same thing. In this very book both Vathah and Teft treat becoming Knight and Squire Radiant respectively as in and of itself redemption. Kaladin has to talk Teft in particular down very explicitly.
@20
I don’t believe Teft’s honorspen’s name was revealed. Unless there’s a WoB I haven’t seen, Phaedra hasn’t been confirmed to be his honorspen.
@28
It’s certainly true that a majority of the characters as well as a good portion of the audience treats Radiance as a gift, a sign of redemption and grace from God all in one package. You know who doesn’t treat it like that? The Radiants themselves. There are of course parts of it they enjoy. Yes there are benefits to Radiancy. But according to most of the POV’s from the Radiants, it’s not all it’s cracked up to be.
As for being invincible on the battlefield, I’m not so sure about that. The Heralds, originators of Surgebinding, would tell you that very hard to kill does not mean impossible to kill. The other side has Surgebinders too, don’t forget, and we haven’t seen the opposition’s full display of tricks. It could very likely be that Radiants aren’t overpowered for the conflict they’re engaged in.
I really loved the Shadsemar road trip. Been waiting for this ever since I first saw that crazy map on the back cover of TWoK. So many cool tidbits. We learn that lesser spren look different on the other side and only a little bit pokes through to the material plain. We learn about deadeyes. All the cosmere connections! We meet an Elantrian. See one of Lightsong’s paintings for sale. Get proof of Azure’s real identity. And I loved that alot of spren are just regular workaday shmoes, going to work, going shopping. Really made me see their whole society in a new light.
@30: I will try to link, later, in this recent interview I read the other day with Brandon as he does speak of his characters being over-powered. Well, the questioner asks him about it and he answered. Basically, yes he does worry about his characters becoming more and more powerfull, but he tends to see it as not “whether or not Kaladin will win” more along the lines of “what will it costs him”. Hence, I am not convinced Brandon will pluck out more terrifying foes than the ones we have seen so far… And Radiants remain nearly impossible to kill whereas regular human beings are nothing more than meat for the grinder, the ones who will die serving Radiants who cannot die or not very easily. How they’ll all end up feeling about it remains to be seen.
Of course, each reader is allowed its own interpretation and by no means do I want to say other readers are wrong about this, I just happen to feel differently. From my perspective, the Radiants aren’t fully appreciating the extend of the chance they were given, except maybe perhaps Dalinar: all they see is becoming a Radiant isn’t solving their problems. My issue with it is no one’s problems will solve magically themselves, except perhaps for Dalinar and his memories. This statement is true for everyone, not just the Radiants.
Everyone has to face their problems. Not just the Radiants. The Radiants however are the lucky few who get validation in their endeavor, who get a special spren to tell them “you are right to feel this way, here is a Nahel Bond”. They get what most people are never going to get within a lifetime: complete and total empathy from a spren who chooses them on the basis of their problems, of their selves. How many people get to being told “you are special”? How many people get to being told “you can belong in our group now independantly of who you are”? What the Radiants were given is inestimable.
Yes, part of being a Radiant is a “duty”, but I do not find a character such as Adolin has less of a duty than the Radiants. In many cases, he has a greater duty than the Radiants, but he doesn’t get the magical push, the acceptance nor the belonging. OK I used Adolin here because he is a named character of importance who is not a Radiant, but we could also use Navani or many of the Generals or the various foot soldiers who will still have to do the bulk of the fighting. Point is, duty isn’t restricted to the Radiants. Radiants aren’t necessarily seeing their duty increase once they form a Nahel Bond, they don’t automatically become the ones with the greatest duty: not everyone is Dalinar. Shallan’s “real” duty as a Radiant has basically been “attempt to meetings” which she struggled to accomplish, so she ran away. Then she was asked to generate an illusion to help defeat the army, but she is not the one who nearly died…. Readers will speak of the cost to her, but I find the cost to the real people who did die far greater.
I am thus unable to view it as a “curse” or as anything negative. I keep on seeing it as an incredible chance in life, a gift only a handful can aspire to, the opportunity to get the tools you will need to both fight and survive within the upcoming Desolation.
That’s how I am seeing it, but huh, I accept my views aren’t shared by others.
So finally have some time to catch up to a degree! First two thoughts:
Regarding the Everstorm. It was the Stormfather that said it was new but of old design. So that reads to me that there was a similar function once upon a time that took a different form with potentially different limitations. The Everstorm is new, but accomplishes prior tasks that were accomplished by a different means. At least that is how I took it.
Second. This is regarding radiants and being broken. Yes Brandon has confirmed you do not have to be as broken as our main cast in order to bond a spren, but I recalled something interesting from Mistborn. I do not believe this constitutes a spoiler. I believe it was confirmed that the more “broken” you were, the wider the cracks were in your spirit web to be filled with investiture, so the stronger mistborn or misting you were. So theoretically although Lopen might not have experienced the same level of trauma as Kaladin, yes he can and has bonded a spren, but he might end up not being as strong in surgebinding.
Now regarding other conversations:
@1 Slaybalj, @2 whitespine, @@.-@ soursavior, @15 goddessimho, @16 landis963, @20 EvilMonky, @27 bird
Ok, I think that covers everyone discussing Sja-anat. I am in the camp of trust at least that she is genuine in wanting to switch sides. Beyond that I do not know. I think this genuineness can be confirmed via the Ghostbloods. They seem to believe she is genuine in seeking to switch sides enough to encourage Shallan to maintain contact with Sja-anat. Now whether she will be super buddy buddy with the humans after Odium is defeated, or betray when the time suits her, that I do not know.
@2 whitespine
Yep, those of the royal blood can change their bodies to certain degrees, more than just their hair.
I agree regarding Kaladin and orders
@3 Austin
Ba-Ado-Mishram found a way to fuel them with voidlight. I think voidlight not only assists the changes, but also fuels their power. Cut off voidlight, you cut off the enemy’s access to their weapons.
@5 tim_s
I agree. It has been confirmed that Kaladin has seasonal depression. On a world where seasons change almost weekly, you really gotta feel for the guy.
@10 Austin
I agree. Though Brandon has gone on record in saying that spren choosing is supremely individualistic on the part of the spren. Theoretically someone could exhibit all the perfect traits for a knight of a particular order (hold to the oaths, be in the right place at the right time, etc) and still have a spren pick someone else. It is just how they work. It is never a guarantee.
@12 Steven Hedge
I whole heartily agree. The hallmark of this series is the desire to change. You have to genuinely want to change and be better.
@13 Carl
All interesting points!
@15 goddessimho
I agree and disagree with you on Amaram. He has always acted so long as it served his purpose. As Jasnah said, he would tear the army apart so long as he was seen being the one leading and saving the world. He even tried to convince Dalinar to abandon Sebarial and the other highprince to go out to the center of the shattered plains with just his own army, for glory for Amaram and Dalinar. Dalinar has to admonish him for such vainglory. Where I disagree is that Amaram is a tragic figure. For me he is a narcissist that pretended all the trappings of the noble lord in order to be seen as the savior. I have started going through every quote associated with him as I had with Jasnah, and that image is just getting stronger and stronger with every quote for me.
@18 KatherineMW
I whole heartily agree :)
@19 KatherineMW
I whole heartily disagree lol. I think the reason for the similarity is it is the cognitive realm. It is a reflection of the thoughts of those in the physical realm. So I believe it makes sense that it would act as a mirror. But I understand and respect that it didn’t work for you.
@20 EvilMonkey
Agree whole heartily on every point save regarding Shadesmar and Shallan. But different things work for different people. To each their own.
@24 Evilmonkey
You do make excellent points. What the Radiants will be fighting, and what it will cost them far outweighs any abilities they get in my opinion. I keep coming back to the Heralds as prime examples. They had access to levels of stormlight no one else did on roshar by being fueled directly by Honor via the honorblades. Yet they were still able to die, and they had to endure endless torture on Braize. So hey, who wants to sign up and get the limitless powers from the honorblades? You just have to watch all your loved ones die, and be tortured for all eternity! Hey why aren’t people lining up around the block?
@28 Carl
True, but one could argue they do not know yet what they are getting themselves into.
@30 Evilmonkey
Again whole heartily agree
@31 toothlessjoe
Whole heartily agree!
@28 – Now that I think about it, I wonder how the Heralds were killed during the desolations. They were directly tapped into Honor’s investiture, so conceivably they would never run out of stormlight and therefore could heal from any wound.
@32 I think the problem is you seem to focus more on the physical cost and not the spirtural or cognitive cost. so people die because of the war. unfourtantly that happens, but we have a character that has SEVERE survivor’s guilt (kal) which constantly bothers him. that’s not a physical cost, but it is harming his mind. Dalinar has now to accept his past and all he had done (taken away from him by something that was NOT the nahel bond, so no, he wasn’t “rewarded” for his crimes, and he was a shadow of his self when he was drunk for 6 years, that’s not a physical cost but that still eats away at your mind, destroying you within. Honestly, I don’t see Adolin’s cost, so he thinks he’s unworthy of his father, i don’t think he deserves chapters away from the main characters to show that, as that journey is more easily accomplished by well just saying no, which he already has done.and I would prefer if he stayed a regular bad ass solider. not everyone HAS to be special, wheel of time shows us that, some of the best characters in that series were the ones who weren’t god like in all of their abilities or protected by literal plot armor
@Gepeto
Yes I read the interview, but of course feel free to link it for those of us who haven’t read the transcript. Thing is, even if Brandon doesn’t reveal any more extensive weapons for Odium, what they’re facing already is formidable as hell. Soldiers that don’t stay dead and are fueled directly by a Shard for unlimited surges, their foot soldiers stronger and faster than the average human soldier, I mean, there’s a reason Melishi had to resort to Connection-busting the Listener population to stop the false Desolation, it’s because even with a fully staffed KR core the best they could do against Odium’s forces was a stalemate. And let’s not forget Odium’s forces have non-magic users too. There’s gonna be cannon fodder on both sides of the conflict.
Look, no doubt the Radiants have advantages not available to run-of-the-mill soldiers. They have some incredible abilities that any non-magic user would envy. And the validation that comes from that spren bond is certainly beneficial. Yet even with all these advantages the KR of old got their brains beat in repeatedly during the Desolations. And if Heralds died despite unlimited Stormlight, you know KR were dying by the score. Even in present day, had Dalinar not managed to pull off the pocket perpendicularity trick then all our Radiants would have died on the fields of Thaylena. To me the KR are the equivalent of soldiers with really special guns. Putting any more value on that is conflating Radiance with goodness and worthiness. It’s a mistake that is all too easy to fall into, a mistake the Vorins are all too eager to fall into despite the efforts made during the Heirocracy. I just think it’s the wrong way to look at things. YMMV.
@37 and @Gepeto and Dalinar’s trick is something that, I think, has never been done before, at least by a regular knight radiant. it’s implied to be Honor’s investiture entirely, looking at how Odium reacted and got out of dodge as soon as he could. I think sanderson may have over done it with things like having Shallan stabbed right in the face and walking it off, or Kal’s bones literatlly mending themselves so he could move again, but that doesn’t mean they are invicinble. Like stated above, the very pinnacles of power, the hearlds, died constantly. heck, the Desolations themselves nearly always ended in a draw, with humanity being pushed back by several hundreds of years of technology, and that was WITH the hearlds and KO on stand by. they’re not the easy answer, as this thousands years long wars have shown.
@32: I’d rather be alive and dealing with my own short-comings, then dead, but that’s just me. From my personal perspective, not dying at 20 years old trumps pretty much any guilt issue Kaladin may have to deal with. Being alive will always matter more, to me as an individual, than the “spiritual cost”. You can always deal with the mental, you can always fix it, improve on it: there is nothing you can do about death. Death is final. Nothing can fix death.
Once you dead, options no longer exist. Radiants have the advantage of having those options, regular soldiers don’t. They will die in the war unless they are lucky, no amount of skill will save them as we saw with Adolin against the Thunderclast. They will die. And from my personal perspective, knowing you have a chance to survive the Armageddon is priceless, no “spiritual cost” will ever make death be more appealing, but I don’t necessarily expect others to agree.
I inferred nothing with respect to where Adolin should be going as a character and within how many chapters. What I want for Adolin’s character is well-known and unlikely to happen as I believe more in his potential within the narrative as most readers do. Brandon likes Adolin where he is within the narrative, he likes the role he currently fulfils, so I don’t expect his character arc to change significantly from what we have gotten so far. Whether or not I believe it is a satisfying narrative nor even an interesting one is nothing more than my personal opinion.
I merely used him as an example of a “non-Radiant”, who’s level of responsibility and sense of duty is often higher than the “Radiants”. I pointed it out because it was argued being a Radiant was a “curse” in the sense with great powers come great responsibilities. My point is thus great responsibilities does not always come hand in hand with great powers. Adolin happens to be an example of a character who has those without the powers whereas Renarin would be the opposite: a powerful man with little to no responsibilities nor duties.
@37: I’ll do once I get home. It was a really good interview, lots of great questions. Did you read the mayhem in the commentaries? It was priceless… I nearly made myself a bag of popcorn to read them!
For the rest, it is the ability to heal from any wound within a matter of seconds which bothers me the most… I’d be able to buy into your “special force soldier” analogy better if they didn’t have this capacity. However, the fact they can survive, with little to no cost, being trampled by a Thunderclast just puts them within such a distinctive class, a privileged class as wouldn’t you approach war differently if you knew you couldn’t die? And yes, I agree, Radiants and Heralds died before, this is true, but the story doesn’t say how many regular soldiers died or merely survived… How many regular people died for each Radiant who did die?
Still from my perspective, regular soldiers are doomed. They have little to no hope of survival. They have to agree to sacrifice their life whereas Radiants do have strong chances of survival. It is just… not the same. And it complicates things significantly when several of those Radiants were taken out of people literally not deserving to survive. Granted, nothing to about what you deserve, but in this case, I cannot help but thinking there might be additional conflicts within our crew of characters once they start reflecting on it.
That the Ghostbloods would like to have a tame Unmade doesn’t mean that they know how trustworthy Sja-anat is.
@35 Austin
Good point. Everyone dies in war. Despite the Heralds and the Radiants healing powers they seem to die just as much as anyone else. Might need different weapons on the enemy’s side to accomplish it, but their lives are no less at risk than anyone else’s. War is horrible. Life is lost on all sides.
“Death is permanent” yet we are reading a series where the main keystone of the entire story and world is Life before Death, meaning they have to focus on that instead of just people dying and in a war where the enemy isn’t staying dead. and a particular character from Mistborn would disagree with you on dead is dead.
@42
Mayalaren might wanna weigh in on the subject as well.
@42: I am within #TeamLife on this one. Everyone who lived long enough knows mental hurdles do not last forever, even guilt lessen as time goes by, so if the argument is it is preferable to die than to live with super-powers because it may mean you’d need to deal with hurdles the dead people probably also dealt with, then the choice is clear. At least, it is for me: life wins. Life wins, every time.
Besides, if “presumed life” within the afterlife is so sweet and amazing, then why trying to preserve life within the physical realm? Why care? Why fight? Why aren’t the characters all committing group suicide to be gone with it and move on to the “better place”? Why isn’t it even an option?
Because life wins. Life will always win and death will always be an ending. Death is the absence of life, the end of dreams. The hope one will survive an apocalypse is priceless, inestimable, worth everything there is to give because facts are wars are terrible. They kill without discernment and the greater majority of people don’t get to have a say in it: they are nothing more than victims without any agency to change their faith nor hope there is anything they can do which would change the inevitable: if you are within the killing zone, you will die.
Radiants are given this agency and for me, this by far exceeds whatever struggles they may need to deal with in return. Their survival may come at a price, but unless the price is watching their children die, then it is worth it, at least for me it is.
On the interview I mentioned: Here is the link:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/brpejf/an_interview_with_brandon_sanderson/
I thought it was a really good interview, so I hope all will enjoy it. For those who enjoy reading the catfight, the comments section goes from bad to worst at some point due to a few individuals thinking it is a good to bad mouth Brandon on this amazing interview. Go figure.
@43: Well, sprens do not die in the same manner humans do. So far in SA, I can’t say what we have seen of death ia enviable nor desirable.
#31, @toothlessjoe:
I didn’t hate the entire Shadesmar part. I felt that it ran 30-50% too long because it interrupted the main story. If you read Sluggy Freelance I felt it was like the terrible “Oceans Unmoving” digression there, except it was not nearly as bad. It dragged somewhat but it didn’t insert a years-long roadblock in the actual storyline like OU.
All those cool Cosmere connections … are cool. But they could have been spaced out into the next 7 books and been just as cool without pausing the plot.
On the whole Sja-Anat thing I want to quote the Diagram Epigraphs here https://coppermind.net/wiki/Words_of_Radiance/Epigraphs#The_Diagram
It’s possible that the epigraph that says “One is almost certainly a traitor to the others” is referring to her.
Re: Shadesmar vs Kholinar dragging.
I liked the Shadesmar part, and if it felt like it was dragging on I felt that to be mood, as they were stuck there and had to travel a long way with nothing much they could do.
Kholinar bothered me, and I’ve been trying to figure out why. I think it’s the lack of any expression of frustration by the characters while they are progressing so s l o w l y towards their goals when the city is about to get overrun. Sometimes these books have parts that are crammed into such tiny frames of time I wonder how they can fit, but here there are days (weeks? how long is this taking, anyway) without them seeming to find out much or make any progress. This part might have benefitted from an Adolin POV as he helped the king recruit forces, just so I could see how much time and effort this was taking.
Problem with the Kaladin POVs is that he thinks the city is doomed and wanted to scrap the mission as soon as he found out about the Unmade. He’s in a weird mood because he can’t figure out why he keeps getting depressed (I think he thought it might go away since he saw his parents and got rid of that weight he carried over Tien, but nope), and while pursuing a potential Radiant or herald is important, it still feels like a slow march towards certain destruction.
And Shallan POVs are… well, Shallan is just all kinds of messed up. She does do a lot, but it still seems to take forever for her plan to make any progress.
Meanwhile, storms come and go, and a giant army forms outside the walls.
@11: Coppermind says Kharat is Lhan, but I don’t know where that’s confirmed. It makes sense that he would still be serving as a “guide.” And still being bad at it. I do informational customer service in the tourism industry, so I would probably be a guide in his past or present place too.
Checking the dates provided n the articles, it looks like our band has been in the city for twenty days already. That really is a long time to take while an army gathers at the gates.
@49 nightheron
Armies move very slowly. They need supply lines (unless you have soulcasters) and equipment which takes time to get from point A to point B. The fused were hanging out outside the city to keep harassing the defenders so they couldn’t organize a better defense by the time the army arrives in full.
I am (unduly) proud that I figured out that Azure was Vivenna in this chapter. Once Kaladin started pressing her on her origin, the meaning of Azure clicked for me. By the next chapter it is obvious by her use of a color metaphor, so not really that impressive ;)