Greetings, O Readers of the Re! This week in Oathbringer, our heroes learn about Unmade, do a little strategizing, and do some crazy—literally—shenanigans. Well, Shallan does, anyway. Also, a new squire emerges.
Reminder: We’ll potentially be discussing spoilers for the entire novel in each reread. There’s no wider Cosmere discussion this week, but if you haven’t read ALL of Oathbringer, best to wait to join us until you’re done.
Chapter Recap
WHO: Kaladin, Shallan, Veil
WHERE: Kholinar
WHEN: 1174.2.3.2
Kaladin, Shallan, and Adolin meet in a stormshelter to compare notes and plan their next moves. Shallan shares information from her new book, Hessi’s Mythica, about the Unmade currently resident in Kholinar. Once the Everstorm has passed, they go their separate ways—Kaladin back to the Wall Guard Barracks, Adolin back to the tailor’s place, and Shallan to meet Vathah and prepare for her next heist and her infiltration of the Cult.
Truth, Love, and Defiance
Title: Stormshelter
This was one of those fashionable places that—while technically a stormshelter—was used only by rich people who had come to spend the storm enjoying themselves.
AA: The chapter doesn’t focus particularly on the shelter itself, but on the conversation; later, it’s also pointed out what happens to those who had no shelter during the storm.
Heralds
Shalash, the Artist, is associated with the divine attributes of Creative and Honest and is the patron of Lightweavers.
AA: As patron of Lightweavers, she’s also associated with Illusion, and that’s a major theme in this chapter. From Kaladin’s bafflement over Shallan’s differing behaviors toward him, to the disguise Adolin wears, to the multiple Illusions she creates while she’s alone, to the end of the chapter where she settles into being Veil, it’s a Theme… and let’s not forget Vathah creating his first Illusion! Shallan’s artwork is a secondary theme; she carves a very nice drawing into the tabletop, she has a whole new collection of drawings for Adolin to admire, and she makes use of those drawings to create some of her Illusions later. I’d say Shalash is well represented in the chapter!
Icon
Kaladin’s Banner and Spears icon gets the spotlight, but he shares the POV with Shallan, and then with Shallan-as-Veil.
Epigraph
Something must be done about the remnants of Odium’s forces. The parsh, as they are now called, continue their war with zeal, even without their masters from Damnation.
—From drawer 30-20, first emerald
AA: I always thought this was odd. Aharietiam was, by the time they were preparing to abandon Urithiru, about three thousand years past. Is this saying that the parsh have been zealously waging war against the humans for that entire time? Once Taln and all the ancestor souls were back on Braize, it would have been Humans with Radiants (no Heralds) vs. Parsh with Voidforms (no Fused), which is not completely unequal, but… it doesn’t quite make sense. The only way I can make sense of this is to assume that the war ended at Aharietiam for a long time, giving both sides a chance to recover and rebuild their societies with only occasional hostilities. Then, somewhere in more recent history, Ba-Ado-Mishram figured out how to make the kind of Connection that would allow the Parsh to bond the voidspren even without the Fused present, and so the war rekindled at a level that again threatened to engulf the world. Does that make sense?
AP: Well, we know that several of the Unmade were active during that time. It’s no surprise that they would continue to cause trouble.
Stories & Songs
Everstorms didn’t quite match up with scholarly projections. The previous one had arrived hours earlier than anyone had guessed it would. Fortunately, they tended to blow in slower than highstorms. If you knew to watch the sky, there was time to find shelter.
AA: Nice little foreshadowing detail here. We can’t know about it yet, but Odium has the ability to speed up or slow down the Everstorm, to some extent. Whether he’s just now experimenting with this, or whether he’s using that ability sparingly at this point, we don’t know. Maybe there will be a clue in the next Venli Interlude, which happens only a couple days after this.
“One of my contacts finally tracked down a copy of Hessi’s Mythica. It’s a newer book, and has been poorly received. It attributes distinct personalities to the Unmade.”
AA: Unmade ahoy! Now we finally get to start learning about them, like we learned about the Knights Radiant in the previous book, from in-world documentation. As always, we have to be a little skeptical of in-world research, since it may be unreliable. At the same time, Sanderson does make use of it to give a lot of great information that would be otherwise implausible for us to learn. So… here goes, I guess.
Rather than trying to quote and comment, I’m going to attempt a quick summary. Hessi says that there are nine Unmade, probably originally ancient spren from before humanity’s arrival on Roshar. Not all of them were destroyed at Aharietiam, and some are active now. Two of them appear to be active in Kholinar now. Sja-anat, the Taker of Secrets, is recognizable by the presence of the corrupted spren around the city. Ashertmarn, the Heart of the Revel, leads people to indulge in excesses; its presence is confirmed not only by the behavior in the palace, but by Wit’s statement back in Chapter 68:
“… The common members wander the streets, moaning, pretending to be spren. But others up on the platform actually know the spren—specifically, the creature known as the Heart of the Revel.”
AA: Regarding the Unmade in general and these two in particular, this is all pretty solid information, so far as it goes; most of it is confirmed elsewhere. So… two Unmade hanging around the palace, which just coincidentally also houses Elhokar’s family and the Oathgate—their two objectives in the city.
“How do we fight two?” Kaladin asked.
“How do we fight one?” Adolin said.
AA: Indeed. As he points out, they didn’t exactly “fight” Re-Shephir; mostly they (or Shallan) frightened her into leaving. Shallan’s book doesn’t say much about fighting them; it seems Hessi’s only advice is to beat feet. Not exactly helpful, under the circumstances. Oh, and it also says that the Unmade can corrupt people as well as spren. (No, really?)
AP: And unbeknownst to them there are actually three! The Unmade Yelig-nar is possessing the Queen, though they haven’t made that connection yet. It’s also interesting to note that Hessi says there could be ten Unmade instead of nine. I suspect that is significant and could show up in later books.
AA: I just assumed that was because of the Rosharan penchant for everything in tens. But… yes, it could be significant later.
Schemes & Strategems
“What if I can’t open [the Oathgate]?” Shallan asked. “What then?”
“We have to retreat back to the Shattered Plains,” Kaladin said.
“Elhokar won’t leave his family.”
“Then Drehy, Skar, and I rush the palace,” Kaladin said. “We fly in at night, enter through the upper balcony, grab the queen and the young prince. We do it all right before the highstorm comes, then the lot of us fly back to Urithiru.”
“And leave the city to fall,” Adolin said, drawing his lips to a line.
AA: One of the things I both love and hate about Sanderson’s writing is that he doesn’t actually let the Classic Fantasy Solution work—because it doesn’t. Kaladin has this cool scheme to use his new magic powers to achieve one of their primary objectives, and it would work as far as it goes. Unfortunately, Adolin has to go and point out the fact that if they bug out via Windrunning, they leave the city—citizens, refugees, and all—to the mercy of the Voidbringers. That doesn’t—and shouldn’t—sit right with any of them.
(Of course, as it works out in the end, it might have been the better solution. They didn’t really make much difference except in freeing the Palace Guard guys so they could die fighting. Elhokar and Aesudan both died, all five squires and little Gavinor got left behind, the city fell, and the remaining leaders ended up in Shadesmar. One could almost wish they’d gone with Kaladin’s plan after all…)
Anyway… there’s a nice little discussion about how a fortified city is supposed to be able to be defended by a relatively small garrison, but it won’t work here because flying Voidbringers plus Cult plus enormous invading army. (Plus thunderclasts, but they don’t know that yet.)
Relationships & Romances
Kaladin lingered, watching Shallan laugh at something Adolin said, then poke him—with her safehand—in the shoulder. She seemed completely enthralled by him. And good for her. Everyone deserved something to give them light, these days. But … what about the glances she shot him on occasion, times when she didn’t quite seem to be the same person? A different smile, an almost wicked look to her eyes …
You’re seeing things, he thought to himself.
AA: Is this the first time Kaladin has (sort of) registered that Veil is really a different “person” than Shallan? I think it must be; he’s always just assumed she was Shallan wearing a disguise and being a good actress, rather than Shallan morphing into a different person altogether.
L: Kal’s never been the most observant of people, but Shallan has been very good about keeping her multiple identities a secret. It makes sense that he’d only really start noticing this when it directly affects him…
AP: He has no reason to suspect Shallan’s actual degree of mental illness. It’s reasonable to assume that Veil is just a disguise to that Shallan wears using her Lightweaving powers. To an outside observer, she does act pretty weird.
“Oh hush,” she said, and batted his arm in a playful—and somewhat nauseating—way.
Yes, it was uncomfortable to watch the two of them. Kaladin liked them both … just not together.
AA: Sigh. I think we’ve all had that experience, maybe? But it does make me chuckle a bit.
L: This touch of jealousy is very realistic, even more so because Kaladin can’t quite put his finger on why he’s feeling the way he is.
“There’s kind of an army in the way,” Kaladin said.
“Yes, amazingly your stench hasn’t cleared them out yet.” Shallan started leafing through her book.
Kaladin frowned. Comments like that were part of what confused him about Shallan. She seemed perfectly friendly one moment, then she’d snap at him the next, while pretending it was merely part of normal conversation. But she didn’t talk like that to others, not even in jest.
What is wrong with you, woman? he thought.
AA: I have to admit I don’t really get it either, but I’m probably forgetting something. I don’t buy his theory that she’s embarrassed by what they shared back in their chasm ordeal. (He, quite reasonably, doesn’t get why she’d be this way sometimes, and then give him sly grins and winks other times; we know it’s because Veil likes him and that persona slips through sometimes.) At this point, my best guess for why she throws these insults at him and no one else is that he’s sort of a fill-in brother for her, and the only person in her immediate vicinity that remotely qualifies. It’s the kind of stuff she’d have said in private with her brothers, and they’d know she was teasing; sometimes her weird humor—puns, insults, and all—was the only thing that kept them halfway sane. Any other ideas?
Buy the Book
Fate of the Fallen
L: Honestly, I think she’s afraid of what she/Veil feels towards him and is lashing out because of it. She’s outwardly denying that she feels anything, like a little boy who makes fun of the girl he likes as a smokescreen.
AP: I’m sure that’s part of it, but Kaladin isn’t familiar with Alethi Lighteyes women’s culture and their penchant for throwing shade. Which Shallan often tries with varying degrees of success. We’ve also talked about her humor before, which tends to land flat when she is “punching down”.
He put his arm around her, pulling her closer as they walked. Other Alethi couples kept their distance in public, but Adolin had been raised by a mother with a fondness for hugs.
AA: D’awwwww. Also, ouch for the reminder of last week. Thanks for that, then.
L: Yet another example of how Adolin’s upbringing has left him with different societal norms. He doesn’t care what other people think of him and his relationship, he’s confident.
Bruised & Broken
“Elhokar is working on last-minute plans through the storm,” Adolin said. “He’s decided to reveal himself tonight to the lighteyes he’s chosen. And … he’s done a good job, Kal. We’ll at least have some troops because of this. Fewer than I’d like, but something.”
AA: It makes me sad that even Adolin is surprised that Elhokar has done a good job of something. I think this is part of why I get so angry about him being killed—he had finally started to quit worrying about what people thought of him, was focused on a worthy task, and was starting to demonstrate that he was good at some things. We’re starting to see that he’s got the makings of a good king after all, and then… but we’ll get to that in a few weeks.
L: He’s making good progress towards actual change. Then… :(
AP: I’m glad he’s trying to do better, but it underscores what an ineffective and weak ruler he was for years before this.
AA: Yes, Adolin’s reaction is telling. Even he didn’t know Elhokar had this in him.
Still, she lingered, enjoying Adolin’s presence. She wanted to be here, with him, before it was time to be Veil. She … well, she didn’t much care for him. Too clean-cut, too oblivious, too expected. She was fine with him as an ally, but wasn’t the least bit interested romantically.
AA: Ugh. Shallan is so broken… She’s so okay with being different people. Like… completely different people occupying her mind and body.
L: Yeah, this is SUPER problematic. Having emotional attachments to multiple people isn’t a bad thing, but segmenting your own personality obviously isn’t healthy in any way, shape, or form. Not for her, and not for Adolin or Kaladin, either.
AP: Agreed that this is very serious. The degree of dissociation among her personas is increasing to a worrying degree.
I can become anything. Adolin deserved someone far better than her. Could she … become that someone? Craft for him the perfect bride, a woman that looked and acted as befitted Adolin Kholin?
It wouldn’t be her. The real her was a bruised and sorry thing, painted up all pretty, but inside a horrid mess. She already put a face over that for him. Why not go a few steps farther? Radiant … Radiant could be his perfect bride, and she did like him.
The thought made Shallan feel cold inside.
AA: Shallan, NO!!
L: Well, at least it’s making her feel cold inside about it. She’s realizing how bad this is, which is a step forward.
AP: That she retains some insight is good. But she needs a much better support system. Her upbringing has taught her not to rely on others, but girl needs help. She can’t manage her mental illness in her own. Roshar is in serious need of some mental health professionals.
“What do you do out there, Shallan? Who do you become?”
“Everyone,” she said. Then she reached up and kissed him on the cheek. “Thank you for being you, Adolin.”
“Everyone else was taken already,” he mumbled.
Never stopped me.
AA: I… don’t even have anything to say about this. It’s just… it needed to be quoted.
AP: I’m just going to repeat SHALLAN, NO!!
She felt her face changing as she walked, draining Stormlight from her satchel. … Face after face. Life after life. … She unbuttoned her havah up the side, then let it fall. She dropped her satchel, which thumped from the heavy book inside. She stepped forward in only her shift, safehand uncovered, feeling the wind on her skin. She was still wearing an illusion, one that didn’t disrobe, so nobody could see her. … She stopped on the street corner, wearing shifting faces and clothing, enjoying the sensation of freedom, clothed yet naked skin shivering at the wind’s kiss. Around her, people ducked away into buildings, frightened. Just another spren, Shallan/Veil/Radiant thought. That’s what I am. Emotion made carnal.
AA: Now that’s just weird and creepy and disturbing. Girl is nuts.
L: I can kind of understand. As a theater kid, being able to become someone else for awhile is very attractive, especially if you’re not happy with who you are to begin with. But Shallan’s taking it to the extreme.
AP: Shallan is the artsy and dramatic one, remember? While this does underscore the difference in the two personas, it also shows a disturbing lack of impulse control on Shallan’s part.
“…I think Shallan was making illusions off and on for years before she said the oaths. But then, it’s all kind of muddled in her head. I had my sword when I was very young, and…”
AA: … and she doesn’t even know whether to speak in the first person or the third.
AP: This starts to become really common in this section of the book.
Squires & Sidekicks
The Wall Guard might have a Soulcaster, and was definitely producing food somehow. It had seized emerald stores in the city—a fact he’d recently discovered.
“Azure is … tough to read,” Kaladin finished. “She visits the barracks every night, but never talks about herself. Men report seeing her sword cut through stone, but it has no gemstone. I think it might be an Honorblade, like the weapon of the Assassin in White.”
AA: It just feels wrong to place Azure as a “sidekick”… but where else? At this point, she is peripheral to the story.
Anyway, so now we know there’s a firm basis to Azure-has-a-Shardblade: It cuts through stone, and no ordinary sword could do that.
AP: Also a good reminder that Honorblades don’t have gems powering them like dead Shardblade do. It also throws the readers off of Azure being a world hopper because it’s an alternate explanation for her weird Shardblade. Where are the other honorblades anyway? I keep expecting them to show up.
AA: As far as we know, the Shin still have seven of them, but I do expect them to come into play one way or another; that should happen by book 5 at the latest, when Szeth takes center stage.
Vathah had taken to planning operations under Ishnah’s guidance, and was proving quite proficient.
AA: That’s kind of fun to read. I’ll admit I still don’t have much affection for Vathah, but he’s starting to grow on me. Especially with the end of this chapter.
“You know, when you reformed me from banditry, I figured I was done with stealing.”
“This is different.”
“Different how? We stole mostly food back then too, Brightness. Just wanted to stay alive and forget.”
“And do you still want to forget?”
He grunted. “No, suppose I don’t. Suppose I sleep a little better now at night, don’t I?”
AA: He’s finally starting to let go of his cynicism, maybe? A little?
Vathah was gone, replaced by a bald man with thick knuckles and a well-kept smock. Shallan glanced at the picture on the table, then at the drained sphere beside it, then back at Vathah.
“Nice,” she said. “But you forgot to do the back of the head, the part not in the drawing.”
“What?” Vathah asked, frowning. She showed him the hand mirror. “Why’d you put his face on me?”
“I didn’t,” Veil said, standing. “You panicked and this happened.” …
“We’ll do the mission as planned, but tomorrow you’re relieved of infiltration duty. I’ll want you practicing with your Stormlight instead.”
“Practicing…” He finally seemed to get it, his brown eyes opening widely. “Brightness! I’m no storming Radiant.”
“Of course not. You’re probably a squire—I think most orders had them. You might become something more.”
AA: That was unexpected, I have to say! Cool, though. Also, one of the last things we’ll see of Vathah until the very last chapter, so we’ll have to wait until the next book to see how it goes.
L: Also, a very cool verification for us as readers that yes, Lightweavers can also have squires who take on some of their powers, just like the Windrunners.
Flora & Fauna
Kaladin finished his drink, wishing it were one of Rock’s concoctions instead, and flicked away an odd cremling that he spotted clinging to the side of the bench. It had a multitude of legs, and a bulbous body, with a strange tan pattern on its back.
AA: Hey, look, there’s a Dysian Aimian in Kholinar!
L: WHICH ONE IS IT? WHY’S IT SPYING HERE? I can’t wait to find out more about their motives!
AP: The Dysian Aimians are such a cool little detail. It’s totally seamless as an easter egg. Of course an establishment in a city under siege might get bugs. But I now automatically get suspicious of any lone cremling we see scuttling around.
Weighty Words
Their Radiants were not a battle-ready group, not yet. Storms. His men had barely taken to the skies. How could they be expected to fight those creatures who flew so easily upon the winds? How could he protect this city and protect his men?
AA: Okay, I could be wrong on this, but I suspect this is a hint at the Fourth Ideal that Kaladin can’t say: He’s having trouble with the fact that he can’t protect everyone. One way or another, it’s got to be something to do with accepting that fact.
L: I think you’re absolutely right. I think the ideal will be something like “I will protect those I can, and accept that I can’t save everyone.”
AP: I totally agree with both of you. To move forward, Kaladin has to accept that he is not capable of protecting everyone, because right now, the fact that he can’t save everyone is breaking him. We will definitely get to talk about this more, later in the book.
“You’re getting better, if that’s possible.”
“Maybe. Though I don’t know how much I can credit myself with the progress. Words of Radiance says that a lot of Lightweavers were artists.”
“So the order recruited people like you.”
“Or the Surgebinding made them better at sketching, giving them an unfair advantage over other artists.”
AA: I don’t know if this is significant or not. It’s interesting, either way.
L: This is an interesting distinction. Sort of a chicken or the egg situation.
AP: I think the magic does make her better. It also allows her to “see” and capture a situation—like her portraits that show the best version of a person, or her drawings of Urithiru and Kholinar showing the Unmade’s influence that she wasn’t able to consciously figure out.
A Scrupulous Study of Spren
“Be glad the door got stuck.”
Syl sat on the hinges, legs hanging over the sides. Kaladin doubted it had been luck; sticking people’s shoes to the stone was a classic windspren trick.
AA: It’s been a long time since we saw Syl playing tricks! In the middle of the doom and gloom of Part Three, it’s nice to have this little callback to the time she stuck Kaladin’s bowl to his fingers and stuff like that.
L: For sure. I just wish that Syl and Pattern has played more of a part in the conversation. Sometimes it feels like they’re not “real” characters and only foils, not really taking part in bigger conversations between the main players. Is this because they’re still holding on to that “we can’t interfere” mindset that they’d lived under for so long?
AP: I think that’s exactly it. I expect they will get more involved as the series progresses and the Knights Radiant don’t have to hide their identities. They can’t exactly hop up on the table here and join the conversation without being suspicious.
… Adolin reached out toward Kaladin. “Let me see your sword.”
“My sword?” Kaladin said, glancing toward Syl, who was huddling near the back of the booth and humming softly to herself. A way of ignoring the sounds of the Everstorm, which rumbled beyond the stones.
“Not that sword,” Adolin said. “Your side sword.”
AA: This cracked me up—Kaladin is so used to only ever having Syl as a sword that he totally forgets he’s carrying a normal one. Heh. But also, poor Syl, doing her very best to ignore the Everstorm, which probably feels even more wrong to spren than it does to humans. Or… wrong on a different level, anyway.
L: Who would remember that they have a dinky little arming sword when they’ve got a SHARDBLADE?
Appealing/Arresting/Appraising/Absorbing Artwork
AA: The Mythica is introduced with some very nice artwork.
L: It reminds me of a Tarot card.
AP: I really like how it’s outlined by the “wrongspren” that we’ve seen in the city. Any significance to the crooked lines on the border? Some sort of glyphs?
A mother with her daughter, sitting in shadow, but with her face looking toward the horizon and the hints of a rising sun. A thick-knuckled man sweeping the area around his pallet on the street. A young woman, lighteyed and hanging out a window, hair drifting free, wearing only a nightgown with her hand tied in a pouch.
“Shallan,” he said, “these are amazing! Some of the best work you’ve ever done.”
“They’re just quick sketches, Adolin.”
“They’re beautiful,” he said, looking at another, where he stopped. It was a picture of him in one of his new suits.
AA: LOL
Okay, I love the descriptions of them all, and they’ll come into play later in the chapter, but his reaction to the picture of himself is so funny.
L: It’s got to be cool to see how someone else views you. Good thing he stopped when he did, though I’m not sure he would have been upset by her sketch of Kaladin (unless it was Kal half naked giving a sultry wink or something).
Quality Quotations
“A longer blade would be impractical.”
“Longer … like Shardblades?” Kaladin asked.
“Well, yes, they break all kinds of rules.”
AA: Yes, I’d like a side of Fourth Wall with my snark, thanks. Heh.
That was a lot of crazy! Join us next week for even more crazy, as Shallan gets into the Cult of Moments in Chapter 78.
Alice is planning to take next week off!
Lyndsey is busy preparing for this season of renaissance faires, but if you’re an aspiring author, a cosplayer, or just like geeky content, follow her work on Facebook or her website.
Aubree is probably reading too much into the fact that she found a lone centipede in her window planter today.
I like your postscript this week Aubree, very nice.
Wasn’t this the False Desolation?
I agree that it seems like Shallan is trying to treat Kaladin like her absent brothers, but since she hasn’t explained herself it doesn’t read that way to him.
When I was in high school, I had a massive/ridiculous crush on a guy who wasn’t interested. We were friends (or maybe more like acquaintainces) and I remember in some ways reacting the same way – being fine one day, and then the next being some what prickly/frosty because of some internal drama he had no idea about, lol. I mean, we probably COULD have been friends if I wasn’t so weird about the whole thing.
The stuff with Adolin and Shallan to me is such a sweet payoff to the scene towards the end where he affirms/accepts the ACTUAL her. It’s not even a ‘big’ scene compared to all the other plot/setpieces but it’s one of my favorites.
I love that artwork of Sja-Anat so much. Where it says ‘she seeks the children of honor and cultivation’ – would that imply she only targets specific spren? Or are all spren associated with one or the other? I know I’ve read a WoB that said some spren did exist before the shattering (although they are still investiture based).
Shallan – I’ve been starting to wonder if there is a correlation between those that like her humor and listened to the audio book and those that don’t find her funny and read the text. I think her humor works best when spoken out loud with the inflections in the correct place.
Elhokar – Strength before Weakness.
Syl and Pattern – They become more talkative in Shadesmar. Probably harder to stay silent when the whole group can see you.
Great chapter to follow up with Dalinar’s worst deeds ever. My comment will be short, this week, and focus on the narrative elements I enjoy the most.
So, I have a different interpretation of Adolin hugging Shallan in public: his character has never been confident about himself, hence I do not think his behavior is a sign of “confidence”. I have always read Adolin’s behavior as him being away from Dalinar, away from his influence, away from the pressure of expectations finally allowing himself to be more… him?
But Adolin is everything *but* confident about himself. His later discourse confirms it.
My take on Adolin is the more we progress within OB, the more he slowly stops being the man his father pressured him to be, the more he becomes more like Evi… more Riran, less Alethi. By the end of OB, people whispers in his back he is acting like a *Westerner*. I love Adolin, so I always thought this was important, somehow.
On Adolin and Elhokar: Well, I think Adolin comments illustrates just how seldom he ever seen his cousin takes actions with notable results. Elhokar strikes me as the kind of person who always expected others to manage things for him (not surprising given he was raised in a palace with servants) whereas Adolin was raised on a warcamp as a child soldier. Quite a strong difference in terms of up-bringing.
I hate Veil. When I first read this passage, I thought this was the first sign of Brandon killing the Shallan/Adolin relationship to start favoring the Shallan/Kaladin one. After all, wasn’t this what most readers were saying (and stil saying) about Adolin? A good person, but boring. Bland. No personality. I felt sorry for him: seems like Adolin is doomed to never be good enough as being a genuinely good person isn’t enough for well, in his case, not much.
Still, I love how Shallan wasn’t able to take the next step, creating a perfect bridge for Adolin. This has been used as an argument in favor of a divorce for our two love birds, the idea she might have created a persona just for Adolin. I always found this passage proved the opposite: she wouldn’t do it. At least, she was not willing to lie to him about *that*.
Of course, I have things to say about Adolin saying: “Everyone else was taken.”. My thoughts are this was rather straight-forward and definitely highlights my above commentary: Adolin has no self-confidence. Whoever he is, he obviously doesn’t think it is worth much: he couldn’t be anyone else, anyone else *better* was taken, he’s only him and *him* never were someone he thought much of. And Shallan is about the only living person he has ever opened up, even if slighty, to voice it out. To everyone else, Adolin is this bursting with confidence, steady, always smiling man who will never falter: the contrast with how he actually views himself is quite… sharp. Adolin never told anyone else, nor even hinted at anyone how unworthy and unsuitable he thinks he is, not to Renarin and certainly not to Dalinar. No one knows, no one suspects, it may be no one is even interested in knowing.
On the side note, this is the chapter where Adolin does see the numerous flattering Kaladin portrays within Shallan’s porte-folio, but says nothing. I was definitely missing his viewpoint here, guy thinks he is worthless and sees this bride-to-be seems more interested within this other guy who’s by all mean is *so much better*. This is one of those instances where I wished Brandon would give Adolin a more detailed, complete story arc instead of those small glimpses scattered within the book.
with their fused masters trapped on damnation I always assumed that this related to normal (non-void) listeners forms continuing to fight against non-parsh; as per the parshendi on the shattered planes.
Then the bondsmith did “something” to separate most parsh from any of the higher forms, leaving the vast majority as the dull form parshendi we saw in the first two books before the everstorm (which is a new phenomenon) allowed / forced them to accept / access void forms.
Aubree’s post scripts are always fun
AA:: she carves a very nice drawing into the tabletop
Presaging of our favorite Releaser doing the same, of course. (She has to be our favorite, she’s the only one in the Stormlight Archive so far.)
AP: Also a good reminder that Honorblades don’t have gems powering them like dead Shardblade do.
The gems don’t power Shardblades, they just make it possible to dismiss them. I have no idea what the mechanism of that is. Gems do power Plate.
Gems don’t power shardblades per se, they provide the conduit for investiture glue to graft the spren remnants onto someone.
Or to put it another way: Spren bonds with person, their spirit web become linked. Person breaks bond, spren is ripped off their spiritweb and is missing some bits. The gem-as-stormlight conduit grafts the incomplete spren onto someone else, but its missing the other bits of the bond so they just get a partial ability to transit to/from the Cognitive realm (as deadeyes/shardblades).
That’s why live shardblades don’t need them; their conduit is from the bond. Honorblades are similar in form only; they operate on their own rules as splinters of Honor.
Plate seems to be far simpler than Blades, which makes sense since it’s probably made from the “lesser” spren condensing into it. The ability to summon/dismiss it is what’s lost as opposed to surgebinding and stormlight use with Blade spren.
Whoohoo, Mythica time! *wriggles*
Hey, I want some very-inhuman monsters in my fantasy. The Parshendi left that role a long book-time ago, bless them, and haven’t really regained it as Voidbringers. Not compared to the Unmade, anyway.
Given how little is known about the Unmade, I wonder who learned (or speculated on?) their genders. Five are said to be male and four female.
Kaladin doubted it had been luck; sticking people’s shoes to the stone was a classic windspren trick. Is that why we sometimes seem to stumble over nothing? Diane Duane would have us believe we’re tripping over invisible cats. :-p #youngwizards #felinewizards
Shallan will tell Adolin that he’s getting three women by marrying her. But if Veil isn’t attracted to him, he’s not really ‘getting’ her.
Lots of relatability in this chapter:
Yes, it was uncomfortable to watch the two of them. Kaladin liked them both … just not together. That’s how I feel every storming time I’m around a couple when I know both people. Even if I’m not attracted to either of them, I enviously resent them for having the romantic and/or sexual relationship I’ve never experienced. It’s unbearably worse if I am attracted to one or both of them, of course.
“Honestly, I think she’s afraid of what she/Veil feels towards him and is lashing out because of it.” I’ve done that, with a plastic porcupinefish as my lashing-out weapon of choice. It doesn’t help the situation.
“Everyone else was taken already.” I know the feeling. Especially when I’m around, or hearing about, people I consider to be Really Cool. Marine biologists, science educators, nature writers, people who are more extreme hippies and/or nerds than me, Seanan McGuire…
Alice, I agree with you. The Dysian Aimian continue to watch the new Knights Radiants. The cremling that Kaladin saw when he Shallan, and Adolin were waiting out the Everstorm in the shelter in Kholinar. I wonder if the Aimia will ever come out openly to fight Odium’s forces. For that matter, do the Regals consider the Aimia to be their enemy as they do the humans?
Another possible reason that Shallan “insults” Kaladin in the way she does. Much as a pre-adolescent child (mostly a boy) will tease a person he/she likes. The teaser is not used to being around somebody like the teased (for example, if the teaser is a boy, he is not used to playing with a group of girls as girls have “cooties”). I agree with Alice that Shallan does not mean to truly insult Kaladin. It is the same “friendly” way they tease each other when they were stuck in the chasm. For those of you who read the Belgariad, it is similar to how Beldin and Polgara greeted each other. They would each try to come up with the vilest insults to great each other. Nevertheless, Beldin and Pol both deeply cared for each other. They did it because it would be of how Beldin looked – he did not care for his physical appearance. Any compliments Polgara gave Beldin would not be as well received by Beldin. I also agree with Alice’s theory that Shallan relates this by-play as something siblings would do. As she did it with her brothers growing up.
If Alice’s theory about the reason Shallan does insult Kaladin (because that was the way she playfully interacted with her brothers) is correct, it does provide counter evidence that her Shallan and Veil persona were not as separated as we the reader are led to believe. Here, Shallan is dressed as Veil and is primarily utilizing her Veil persona. The counter to my counter is that even though she is “dressed” as Veil and on a type of reconnaissance, she is with Adolin and Kaladin who only know her as Shallan. Thus, she needs to act like Shallan. Shallan is quick with a quip and witty (at least she thinks they are witty) statement. Also, Shallan is betrothed to Adolin so she can be lovey dovey with him.
Shallan’s responding thought to Adolin’s response about “everybody else was taken already” is the core of Shallan’s problem. She does not think Shallan the person is good enough to deal with whatever issue she is dealing with at a given moment in time. This is because Shallan still views herself as a “bruised and sorry thing, painted up all pretty, but inside a horrid mess.” I believe until she speaks the truth that the true Shallan is the strong woman that she has been since the she left her father’s house to search out Jasnah (despite any mistakes she may have made along the way), then Shallan will not truly stop creating different personas (e.g. Veil & Radiant) and at least to some extent assuming these personas internally and externally.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
Simpol @5. I enjoy Shallan. I think she is funny, witty and sarcastic. I also consider myself sarcastic (but not funny and witty like Shallan). I have only read the books; never listened to the audio book.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
Re: The Art of Shallan
AA: I don’t know if this is significant or not. It’s interesting, either way.
L: This is an interesting distinction. Sort of a chicken or the egg situation.
This mechanic is the same as the one for Kaladin and his virtuosity with the spear. It’s Spiritual shenanigans. I fully expect to see this kinda thing happen for other emerging Radiants. Maybe Jasnah with her intelligence or adherence to logic is partially the results of the Spiritual time-independant connection thing that goes on between Nahel Bondmates.
@AndrewHB, we might consider that the Aimians, like the Singers and unlike “humans”, are natives of Roshar. Odium might think of them as enemies, but would Singer culture, if it had survived? Do the Fused, who actually remember millennia ago?
@16 im not positive on this, but i think there is a WOB that the Dysian Amians are not from Roshar
Kinda of a slow chapter, eh?
@Aimians
I couldn’t find any specific WoB that clarifies the origin of Aimians. Many questions in this direction got RAFOed. But there seem to be Sleepless on other planets. Nevertheless, Aimia was part of the Silver Kingdoms, so I guess they were on the Radiants side at some point. Though humans also fought on Odium’s side, so I don’t think he regards a whole race as enemies…
The WoB I believe that is being referred to is below. Got a lot to catch up on to put my own thoughts on the chapter. Will when I can!
Stormlightning
Would the Ghostbloods try to recruit [a Sleepless]?
Brandon Sanderson
Um, the Ghostbloods would not trust a Sleepless.
Stormlightning
They wouldn’t? So they wouldn’t even try to get one?
Brandon Sanderson
They would not. They would expect a Sleepless to take over their organization or try to. And try to stay far away from the Sleepless.
Stormlightning
What about the Seventeenth Shard?
Brandon Sanderson
There are members of the Seventeenth Shard who would be interested in recruiting one of the Sleepless. Generally they represent a wildcard faction that a lot of other people are wary of.
Stormlightning
I guess Khriss and them just know about them?
Brandon Sanderson
Yes. The Sleepless are cosmere-aware.
Stormlightning
Are they worldhoppers?
Brandon Sanderson
There are Sleepless on many planets. They have mostly settled on Roshar for various reasons.
@20 Scath Thanks as always for the WoB. Settled. Seems to be a clear case. :D
@6 “Still, I love how Shallan wasn’t able to take the next step, creating a perfect bridge for Adolin. … At least, she was not willing to lie to him about *that*.”
Not just that she’s not willing to lie, but she’s not willing to “give” Adolin to “someone else,” even if that someone is just a different/better version of her. Her attachment to Adolin to something she wants to keep: she recklessly gives away so many parts of herself in making her personas (like her art, which Veil sneers at), but not this.
@11: I can relate. When I was younger, I felt like it took forever before I got to find someone to be in a relationship with. My perception was everyone else was successful with the inter-personal relationships, everyone was having sexual relationships, everyone had other people be interested in them, everyone except, of course, me. It didn’t help the prevalent discourse, at the time, was teenagers were, on average, sexually active from the age of 14 an onward. How to make the young adult I was seriously depressed over my own prospects and feeling incredibly “abnormal”. Nowadays discourse is even worst so I wouldn’t be surprised to hear many young people feel the way I once did multiply by 10.
Therefore, back in those years, yeah, seeing a happy couple, especially if they were my friends or people I knew, I felt jealous. A pang of envy. I’d be annoyed. And it had nothing to do with how I truly felt for one or the other partners. It didn’t mean I secretly loved one or the other, it just meant I was jealous it seemed so easy for them to genuinely have what I couldn’t have but was craving for.
I am not saying Kaladin craves for a relationship, but I can get why he’d be annoyed at seeing two people develop one so easily while he’s still so hung up on so many things. When you feel abnormal (like I suspect Kaladin feels), it usually makes you feel better if other people feel the same, but from the outside, Shallan and Adolin are just the perfect shining example of the desirable relationship. They are beautiful, young, all lovey-dovey: they are exactly *this* couple you either roll your eyes seeing or you secretly envy to the point of being jealous.
With those two, it is all about projecting… Shallan with her lies, Adolin with the role he plays. I wouldn’t be surprised if their relationship evolves this way: a picture-perfect image of something which perhaps isn’t working as well as expected, on the inside. I can see Shallan’s secretive personality, tendency to lie, and refusal to share be a strain while being in a relationship with someone so naturally giving and prone to put others before him such as Adolin. On one side, you have someone who does everything to please the other without ever receiving a tenth back, bound to find out all he has ever gotten back were lies. On the other side, you have someone who’s so close up on others receiving all of this positive attention without being able to reciprocate which is bound to create some guilt.
So I don’t think the Shallan/Adolin relationship will be as picture perfect, on the inside, as they will look, on the outside, not unless Shallan stops lying to Adolin and Adolin stops always trying to please. If not, then, well, I think they are up for a few waves.
I am glad I am not the only one who got Adolin’s remark was meant to illustrate a lack of either self-worth and/or self-confidence. He just doesn’t think *him* actually matters nor is particularly interesting nor admirable. His *only* talent is dueling which is *useless* in a war and even *that* he’s only good because he had unfair advantages. Everything else *good* about him was given to him through his name, his rank, his father and so on. Strip him of all his advantages and he is nothing. That’s basically where Adolin ends the book in terms of mind frame.
@12: I agree the day Shallan admits to herself she never was the broken mess of tears she firmly believes to be is the day she will stop needing to create personas to deal with life as her, Shallan, is, of course, unable to. Still, I appreciate there is one part of her she has been unwilling to compromise, to lose in personas nor to fundamentally change and this is the side of her which is in a relationship with Adolin. This ties in with her later stance when she refuses to listen to Veil/Radiant urging her to choose more suitable Kaladin. This ties in with her wanting Adolin, not because he is the best candidate (he isn’t, Kaladin, at that point in time, is the better match), but because he is the one she wants to be with, he is the one she wants to hug, he is the one she is able to be herself with because, from the start, she has been unwilling to lie about herself to him. Oh, she lied to him about her past, about her activities, but not about who she is and, in the end, that’s what mattered.
Hopefully, she can tell him all of the truth before he finds it elsewhere. Hopefully, not the same day his father tells him about his mother.
@18: I like this chapter. I find it offers much in terms of character development, relationship and romance when it comes to discussion. Unfortunately, there just aren’t a lot of readers left who are interested within those discussions for them to carry on a thread like they used to prior to OB’s release.
@22: Good catch about Shallan destroying her love of art whenever she is Veil, but unwilling to compromise her love of Adolin. She’s readily become Veil for a lifetime, she does not care if she never draws again so long as she gets to be Veil in return, but when being Veil ends up implying she’d have to let Adolin walk away, she shoves both her and Radiant away.
I dislike when readers accuse Adolin of being Shallan’s anchor… He is not her anchor. The love she has for him merely ends up being the side of herself Shallan isn’t willing to destroy upon the promises of becoming someone more suitable to face life. When the choice ended being: become someone else, someone you always wanted to be (Veil) or someone you think is better (Radiant) or be with Adolin, she chose Adolin. She came to realize all of those made-up personalities may be alluring, but within the mind frame she has given them, none actually wants to be with Adolin. Veil isn’t interested because Adolin is not a dark broody mysterious man and Radiant is too rational to be interested as a match with Kaladin would make more sense.
So far she has been willing to give away her art, his witty nature, her smiling frumpy side, her lighteyes, her family, her background, literally everything and she would have given everything away… except for Adolin.
This has nothing to do with Adolin being able to notice her personality change or loving the real *her*, it is all about Shallan not wanting to give *him* up over the opportunity of becoming someone else. He just ended up being the one side of the real her she wouldn’t give away and it makes perfect sense.
How many of us would readily trade parts of ourselves to become someone we consider more suitable? I bet many would make the trade, getting rid of interests, hobbies even personality traits in exchange for getting ones we find more attractive to have. How many would, however, trade their loved ones for it? I bet the answer is a lot less if any. So that’s where Shallan’s choice takes up all of its meaning: Adolin is too important for her to be traded against something she either desires to be.
Veil/Radiant are the perfect personas Shallan created, but they both have a flaw: neither is in love with Adolin as only her is. Hence, Shallan makes a choice, not because she has a strong incentive on the outside, not because it is logical, not because it is preferable, she makes a choice because she wanted to make this choice and by doing so, she highlights the greatest weakness of her personas. They may *look* real, they may *feel* real, they even *sound* real, but both are unable to re-create the complexity of human emotions: all act according to the rules Shallan gave her. Inside those rules, none can love Adolin as loving Adolin defies logic, he isn’t the rational choice, nor the one you’d expect your heart to choose… He’s just this guy who seems perfect, but boring, unable to steer passion, unlike Kaladin… He isn’t smart enough. He is crap at witty come-back. He has a position Shallan’s not interested in whereas Kaladin has one more suitable. He can’t relate to her being broken, not enough. He doesn’t have this sob back story, not yet. He is not a Radiant.
There are no valid reasons why anyone would choose Adolin unless you are a social climber (and Shallan isn’t) which is why it was impossible for both Veil nor Radiant to want Adolin, it is why both end up preferring Kaladin, but the heart doesn’t care about any of those reasons. The heart can only love and whenever you find the right person, there is a vibe in the air, there is a sense of settlement as if all of the pieces of a complex gear system had finally fallen in place. All may be going to damnation around you, but that part, that moment, it is perfect.
Ah well, that’s quite a lot. I hope I didn’t bore too many people talking so much about the romance!
As someone who is over thirty, has never been in a romantic relationship, and has found even moving into the friendship stage difficult. I sometimes find myself jealous of the types of problems that other peoples face. The types of problems that attractive people have of getting too much attention, of being looked at as only attractive, I can’t help but envy as it is something I will never be able to deal with as being short is not seen as an attractive quality in a man. (I am also overweight tough loosing weight, but the latter is something I can (at least theoretically) do something about, the former not so much.) I am aware on an intellectual level that this is a case of the “grass always being greener on the other side” and that if I “WERE to have their problem” I would inevitably find them just as annoying to deal with. Still I can’t help but feel some resentment on some level. I mean again on an INTELLECTUAL level I KNOW I am being stupid, but that doesn’t change the way I FEEL. And I can’t help but FEEL like being derided that because I am from an area of society that has more advantages my pain doesn’t matter. Even though by all rights EVERYONE’s pain SHOULD matters. This makes this stuff hard to talk about. And I only hope I expressed it well.
P.S. This is as someone who at the same time gets MAD when someone doesn’t feel for the pain of those same people I can get jealous of. I am weird like that. I see someone, ANYONE in pain, My instinct is to comfort them.
@24BenW This is a great ability I sometimes envy. I am not only a very bad empath, I am also emotionally cold. I don’t like expressing emotions, I even don’t like feeling them strongly and I hate dealing with emotional people as I just don’t know how to react appropriately. It took me more than 30 years to find someone I could really open up to, to fall truly in love and to even allow myself to be stupidly lovey dovey with (on very rare occasions and never in public). He’s not looking like the man of my dreams. We just clicked somehow. So forget about looks. Once you find the right person, this doesn’t really matter anymore.
@Gepeto Count me in as one of those people hating reading the love triangle story. I, however, really appreciate discussions and insights about it. It provides a better understanding for me.
@24: I can definitely relate to being annoyed at hearing other people’s problems: “Oh no, guy #10 he broke up with me.”. And me thinking: “Well at least you had someone, many someones, to break up with you, I never had anyone.”. I can also relate to being very annoyed at people complaining they had too many people trying to date them… I recall having those feelings, back when I was younger.
This being said, being over-weight and not considered attractive via the prevalent conceptions of what beauty is, do not bear someone from having a healthy loving relationship… See, one of my friends has an .. unfortunate physic. No one would call her nor think her pretty under no possible angles and yet she met a special someone at a beach party some 18 years ago. They have three kids now and are a perfectly happy one with each other, none care about what the other looks like.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder had never ring truer whenever I look at those two. Ah and look at Dalinar. He is downright ugly, he spent a lifetime being a brutal beast, he is not even particularly smart and yet… Navani loves him. Or look at Sadeas who could have likely gotten a pretty girl to marry him, but instead chose unattractive Ialai as he valued her intellect more than her face. On the reverse, we have Adolin who downright handsome and rich, but couldn’t, before Shallan, make one girl want to stick up with him, to fight for him, to choose him. Beauty isn’t everything.
For the rest, yes, we are allowed to have our own pains and yes, sometimes we are unable to sympathize with other people’s pains. I wrote a great deal lot about what it meant to have grown up next to a difficult sibling who garnered most of the attention with her problems, thus making my own feel so insignificant. Except they weren’t, for me they weren’t. I have grown up feeling selfish for it. And angry. So angry.
Life is complicated.
@25: One the reasons I like romance is I feel it helps humanize the characters, it makes them feel more realistic. Humans are complicated, they have emotions they do not always control and even in the face a Desolation, they will still love and hate even if it isn’t rational, even if it were preferable if they didn’t.
Emotions are not rational which makes me appreciate when characters do irrational things because their heart tells them to. Romance is not the only way, but it is one of the ways for authors to use to portray a wider range of human emotions. It isn’t rational for Shallan to love Adolin, rationality would be to either stay single as many readers wish she did due to her “issues” or to choose Kaladin who’s a better match on all front except for richness, but that’s kind of not important when it comes to love. But Shallan isn’t rational, she is a realistic young woman who’s able to love even if it would preferable if she didn’t, who’s able to have those feelings and to act on them even if this isn’t the best solution.
Hence, for me, romance makes the narrative more interesting and more realistic, but I guess others have a different opinion. This being said, I will get annoyed by over-powering romance: I disliked it in Inda, I disliked how it was brought upon just as I strongly disliked as intimacy was presented within this world. I, however, do like it in SA even if I do believe the current love triangle wasn’t well executed.
@Gepeto: I took Kaladin’s jealousy to be derived in part by some degree of attraction to Shallan, though that wouldn’t be necessary. Or attraction to Adolin; I don’t see it; but some people ship them, or at least shipped them earlier.
Agreed that appearance, by any standard, doesn’t make all of the difference in seeking relationships. I’m a conventionally beautiful woman (by mainstream US standards) but at 31 I’ve never had a romantic or sexual relationship, while I know many not-very-conventionally-attractive people who have found plenty of love. I blame the vision impairment that keeps me from nonverbal communication, and a lack of good fortune in meeting people. (I spend a lot of time on Dr. NerdLove’s website, a haven for lonely, frustrasted adulfs like me). Also, while a man’s short stature said said to be a deal-breaker for some women, others don’t care, or prefer shorter people. I’m 5’0″ and while I’ve been attracted to people of diverse heights, I’d prefer a partner who I could hug properly instead of around the waist and look in the face instead of the chest.
There’s something missing in all the discussions about Sja-Anat, both here and in the book. Why does she have the title “Taker of Secrets”? What secrets does she take? Does she gain information from spren by corrupting them? Can she see/communicate with/through corrupted spren?
Any thoughts?
@27: I am split on whether or not Kaladin did or did not feel attraction to Shallan at this point in time within the story. His later discourse seems to suggest that no, whatever he felt wasn’t attraction so I tend to take it as him being genuinely confused as to what he felt and what he should feel.
I am aware Kaladin and Adolin are a popular ship, but I just do not see it. I, honestly, cannot read any attraction nor am I reading any of their interactions as being a sign of either of them thinking of each other in such terms. Hence, I definitely do not think Kaladin is attracted to Adolin (nor do I think Adolin is attracted to Kaladin), but I do think he wonders if he might be feeling something for Shallan. After all, she was sending him mixed signals, so he did wonder if he should act on it at the same time he wondered if he wanted to act on them.
Unfortunately, I do not have any magic recipe at finding someone: I consider myself incredibly lucky to have met my partner. It isn’t a matter of physical look, I look perfectly fine (well I do know, wasn’t always the case), but more a matter of… personality, behavior all of those things I struggled with as a younger person which were terribly off-putting for most people. How we met and started dating is actually quite a story… but I think what made the difference was the willingness to put ourselves out there and to create occasions to be together.
And, of course, we had magical help or so I like to believe.
@28RogerPavelle This is an excellent question. We still do not know very much about the Unmade. It’s frustrating, really. :)
Maybe Sja Anat can see what e.g. Renarin sees through corrupted Glys? If this is the case, I would trust her more than I actually do, since Renarin is a black spot in Odium’s view of future possibilities.
In the Shallan comment about Kal’s stench she is speaking exactly as he would expect any of his Bridge 4 buddies to speak. She is treating him like a close friend who can take a joke. I think it’s Kal’s brooding seriousness and romantic interest in Shallan that makes him touchy about the joke.
@28 RogerPavelle and @30 Bird:
That is an excellent question. I like the idea that she spies through her corrupted spren. I hadn’t given it much thought beyond thinking it was a variation on Odium’s “give me your pain” shtick, like Sja-Anat perhaps literally steals dark buried secrets out of peoples brains, but the spying with corrupted spren thing makes much more sense.
@31 Meghan
I agree with you about the stench joke, it’s no different than some of her lowbrow barbs from their time in the chasms. Though she knows it bugs him, and tends to go for the insults she knows will get a reaction from him. I personally feel she is being unconsciously passive aggressive because of Helaran, but don’t have much in the way of evidence to back up my feeling.
It is her other barb which I thought went too far. It shocked me the first time I read the book. When Kaladin insults her followers, she is understandably upset and defensive.
Ouch. Kaladin had told her about being a slave, repeated escape attempts where everyone had died, the hopelessness of the bridgeruns. And she chooses that as a retort.
@25 As someone on the Autism Spectrum, (I was diagnosed with Asperger’s before it was lumped together with autism.) I am a weird bird when it comes to empathy. On an INTELLECTUAL level I sometimes have trouble both noticing people in pain as well as having the “right” social response for these things so when it comes to THAT type of empathy I can of fail. But when it comes to the empathy that means CARING about other peoples feelings I have a GREAT deal of it. Much more so then the average person apparently. (Note: this does not I mean I don’t ever get frustrated with their actions)
P.S. There is good article on TVTropes USeful notes section that explains Asperger well if you want more information. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/AspergerSyndrome
@32 right? especially since Kal has kind of a history with one of her soliders, that’s like…what a bitchy move of her to say that. Kal should have given a lighteyes crack. Its like…they were all forced, they had no choice, unlike her soliders which she has no idea how to use until recently.
Um, “I will remember those who have been forgotten” – second ideal …..
Don’t know if anyone has said this yet, but:
“The perfect bride, a woman that looked and acted as befitted Adolin Kholin” is not what he wants. He’s dated heaps of *perfect Alethi women* and none of them have lasted. He loves Shallan because she ISN’T that.
It’s sad Shallan is unable to see that.
Lightweavers have to remember truths about themselves, not forget them like Shallan did.
I want to point out how cute Adolin and Shallan are with each other. Adolin finally got to a point where he can be physically forward with Shallan and I think she really likes that. The part where she laughs at something Adolin said- it’s really nice to have that part as Adolin doesn’t find himself funny and many readers don’t find him funny (at least not as Kaladin), but still she laughs. It’s good to have someone who can make you laugh. I feel like when Kaladin is being funny, for her it becomes a wit battle because she likes that, but when Adolin makes her laugh, oof it’s nice for her, it makes her warm. That’s one of the reasons why I don’t like the other personalities because you can have Shallan at one moment and this completely different person in the next.
Also can I say just how much of a relationship glow up Adolin got from the second book. In the second book, before the chasm incident, Shallan kisses him on the cheek and he is really suprised and shocked basically and in this book he really likes when she kisses him on the cheek and HE IS the one who puts his arm around her. He is the one that shows affection.
I just love the two of them together. Shadolin I am counting on u to stay strong in Book 4 (and 5 and 6,7,8,9,10 even though they’re gonna have 4% screentime even if they both survive).
@39: You might enjoy this WoB:
Questioner (paraphrased)
Shallan’s and Adolin’s relationship felt sort of rushed at the end. Was there a reason you developed it like that?
Brandon (paraphrased)
Shallan and Adolin are very young and madly in love. The marriage partly was for state reasons. They’re really unlike Dalinar, who was in denial for 15 years about loving Navani.
It has been argued Adolin and Shallan do not *really* love each other, they just *like* the idea of being together. In fact, the main argument of the Kaladin/Shallan shippers, lately, has been there is no explicit signs Adolin loves Shallan as he doesn’t spell it out within his viewpoints. I thought it was quite obvious from his whole narrative, he needed not to say it, but some readers took the absence of words as the living proof Adolin did not love Shallan, merely wanted to settle down, to make it work, for once. And if Adolin did not love Shallan, then their marriage was doomed to fail, as those readers want it.
This WoB proves this interpretation was the wrong one. Adolin does love Shallan. Shallan does love Adolin and both are acknowledging it.
I too find them terribly cute. In OB, we see from Dalinar’s flashback how Adolin has been a very affectionate child, but we also saw how his father disapproved. Hence, we can assume, ever since Evi died, little Adolin got no more hugs and ended up realizing they aren’t welcome. It is only when he is finally with a woman he loves his affectionate side starts to pop out again. In WoR, he was still very shy with her as their relationship was very new, but out there in Kholinar, while wearing a disguise, away from Dalinar, Adolin is finally able to reconnect with his own self. By the end of OB, he openly hugs and kisses Shallan which gets others to call him “Westerner” in his back. I thought this was an awesome turn on things.
I think the clash within Adolin’s behavior, in between WoR and late in OB, just highlights how much of himself he has been suppressing all those years. What it cost him to try to be like Dalinar wants him to be.
@pancakesarelife
Plenty of real, mentally healthy people are like that. To an extent any adult does that–my personality when I’m speaking on a dais or hosting a party is different from my personality when alone or with one or two people, and it also varies a lot depending on which person/people I’m with.
What makes Shallan problematic is her pretending to be someone else so desperately, as a way to pretend away her trauma.
@40- There is a scene at the end of OB where Adolin hugs Shallan from behind and they call each other beautiful and a Brightlady who is standing next to them rolls her eyes at them.
If I were in a relationship then hugs from behind would be a must.
I like that they are both physically affectionate towards each other now. It shows that they are comfortable with each other. It also makes them seem more real to readers. Some little moments between them make them a stronger and better couple and I don’t think either of them realizes or notices it.
Aside from the fact that I truly am shipping these 2 love birds, I really enjoy their chapters. Brandon did a really good job at their scenes in my opinion. Maybe some things between them were rushed in the ending, but a lot of moments in those ‘rushed’ scenes are really precious.
Shadolin’s scenes are interesting and refreshing. The world that they live in is dark and scary and wherever they are it’s like they are scared and holding their breath. When they are with each other they can breathe and laugh and tease each other.
So… did anybody else believed this description about Shallan:
“She felt her face changing as she walked, draining Stormlight from her satchel. … Face after face. Life after life. … She stopped on the street corner, wearing shifting faces and clothing… Just another spren”
Matches Cusicesh?? any relation there?